Help me buy ~200 bottles of Bordeaux to drink by 2024

As this is my first post, let me begin by saying how awesome this community is; I’ve learned a ton so far. I hope you don’t mind sharing some of your collective wisdom with me.

So here is my situation. I’m a diplomat living in China, where I will remain posted until 2024. Wine here is incredibly expensive, so buying here isn’t an option, nor is ordering online since I would get hit with crazy duties. Fortunately my new boss is a real oenophile and has arranged for us to make an annual (tax and duty-free, since it’s being purchased via diplomatic channels) group purchase with a Bordeaux wine merchant (here is a spreadsheet showing the full selection of chateaux/vintages and prices, for anyone who is interested). Because we’re organizing a group purchase, we have to go through this one merchant; I can’t go out and find another one whose selection I happen to prefer.

Because it won’t be practical to bring any wine with me when I move, I need to consume all wine before the end of 2024 (no cellaring for me for the foreseeable future, sadly…). We’re also only able to do this order once a year (as it’s a large administrative burden for our colleagues charged with clearing the shipment), so I need to buy at least a year’s worth of wine consumption up front.

I’m quite new to this hobby, totally new to Bordeaux, and I’ve actually never tasted a wine with 10+ years on it so I’m not even familiar with tertiary flavors. I’m therefore planning a purchase that will cover all the appellations, from a mix of traditional and modern producers, from a variety of vintages, in order to determine what I like before I make next year’s order. All this without breaking the bank (I’m aiming for an average cost of 40 euros per bottle).

Now, with all these constraints in mind–and I admit there are many, so thank you if you if you’ve read this far–here are my most burning questions:

• Is there any point in drinking young bordeaux (e.g. 2015/16) now and over the next few years, particularly classified growths, or would it basically be a waste?
• If it’s not a waste, are there any producers who wine drinks particularly well young?
• Would I be better off buying older wines (say, 2008-2010) from less illustrious producers, or younger wines (2012, 2014) from more renowned ones?
• 2013 is much cheaper. I gather it’s generally to be avoided but I was thinking of using it as an entry point to some more expensive chateaux. Is this approach bound to disappoint?

In terms of good QPR chateaux that have caught my eye, I’m looking at Chasse-Spleen, Sociando-Mallet, d’Issan, du Tertre, Poujeaux, Potensac, Branaire Ducru, Cantemerle, d’Armhailac, d’Arsac, Fombrauge, Gloria, Lafon-Rochet, Phelan-Segur, Prieure-Lichine, Croix de Gay–among others. But again my challenge is that for many of these producers, 2014 or 2015 is all I can get my hands on.

It’s very probable I’m totally overthinking all this and should just buy a bunch of wine and drink it (that’s what my boss is doing–he’s buying almost exclusively 2016 with the intent to drink them now, including top-shelf stuff like Leoville-Poyferre and Ducru-Beaucaillou). But this is a big purchase for me and represents the sum total of wine I’ll drink over the next year, so I want to make sure I do it right.

Thanks in advance for any light you fine folks can shed on my dilemma!

I think there’s a few questions that would be useful for you to answer so people can better assist you in your purchases:

• What do you usually like to drink? It’s going to be hard for people to recommend things that fit your tastes without a baseline for you enjoy.
  
  
  
• Are you looking for reds only? I see in the spreadsheet there are also options for whites, sweet wines, and champagne. Are you interested in those as well?
  
  
  
• You mentioned you boss does an annual purchase. Are you planning on consuming 200 bottles every year or is the 200 bottles for your entire stay there?
  
  
  
• Have you considered where you are going to store 200 odd bottles of wine?

Lots of young Bordeaux drinks pretty well now, especially if you are not buying the top/most expensive wines. They may still be a bit tannic but can be really enjoyable. For example we had a recent tasting of six mid-priced 2016s including Cantemerle and Chasse-Spleen and I would have been happy to drink any of them with dinner, even though my preference might be to age them.

I would try to avoid 2013 but 2012, 2014 and 2017 could be very good. Of course 2015 and 2016 should be excellent in most cases though they might be richer and possibly more backward. If you are staying in the 30-50 Euro range give or take, I suspect you’ll find a bunch of excellent wines, despite their youth.

I didn’t see any on this list but if you have an opportunity to try some of these wines in older vintages, they can be really nice. For example in the past few years I’ve had nice bottles of Gloria 1981 and 1985, Chasse-Spleen 1981, 1983, 1985, Cantemerle 1989 and 1996, Poujeaux 1982, etc. Bordeaux ages wonderfully even from the relatively modest Chateaux.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Rodrigo, those are all good questions (and ones I probably should have thought to answer in my original post). Here are my replies:

-Again I’m new to wine, so I’m pretty open-minded. The wines I’ve enjoyed most so far are Riojas and Amarones. But part of my goal here is to expose myself to a variety of Bordeaux styles.

-I’m mostly focused on reds but definitely going to pick up some whites and champagnes. I’d certainly be open to any recommendations!

-My thinking was I would drink 100 bottles or so this year and store 100 to age and drink over the next 4 years (it’s cheaper to keep aging them myself than pay the merchant’s premium on older wine). Then, based on what I liked most, I would buy more next year given my annual consumption of approx 100 bottles.

-I’m going to buy a wine fridge that fits 150 bottles or so, and I have a wine rack that fits 64 bottles (my apt is 22C year round, I’m thinking that storing wines at that temp for a few months as I drink them isn’t a big deal?). I could also just spend a bit more and buy a fridge that fits all 200. Or order less wine, but where’s the fun in that

you’re living in China… load up on the 2000 Lafite daily drinkers!

Thanks, Craig G, that’s really reassuring to hear. Sounds like I can’t really go wrong, even if it would be ideal to age them longer. I would love to try some older vintages but sadly it doesn’t seem like this merchant is offering any. Maybe I will reach out to them to see if they can get their hands on some older bottles for me. Once international travel is feasible again, I’m planning a trip to France, which could be a good opportunity for me to stock up on some properly aged bottles. And Hong Kong isn’t far away either. Thanks for the advice!

haha you said it, Mark Y! The stratification of the wine market here is crazy, the semi-upscale grocery store where I go to buy imported products has a wine room with Petrus, Lafite, Latour etc going for like $20k, there’s really no middle ground

What city are u living in?

I would be really cautious with fake wines for $20k. I’m sure you are aware that fakes are very prevalent in China.

Hong Kong is a great auction market if u can get in.

My friend once brought over some immaculate first growths from his cellar in Foshan.

But his Lafite was definitely a daily.

I live in Guangzhou, in South China, only one hour on high speed train from Hong Kong, so I’m really hoping the border opens soon. I feel like the auctions there might be out of my league, though!

Even if I could afford a $20k bottle of wine–which I most definitely can’t!–as you say, I wouldn’t buy it in China, given how rampant counterfeiting is here. I’ve been burned a few times buying fake liquor and even fake shampoo here, so I’ve learned my lesson!

Hi, one of the things you may get used to here is people providing advice regardless of your actual question;). In that vein, I would recommend you get some of the whites from autres regions, specifically: 1 case each of Moreau nodet Chablis, Lamy chanteniere and Lamy en remilly. You could mix it up a bit by picking some of the flasher Chablis versions too. That way, if you find you way prefer the vaillons over the montmains you know what to buy more of next trip. The champagne selection is frankly humdrum though you might get a few roses (both ruinart and billecart are good) if you think bubbles will be necessary at some point. On the Bordeaux wines, there are many here with tonnes more experience than me. In anticipation of them providing better advice, I would suggest you select 8-12 different wines (and vintages) to buy in quantity each as that will help you figure out favourites. Something like 6 each of cantermerle ‘12, ‘14 and ‘15 will help you develop your tastes and understand your preferences (the ‘15 will be very different from the ‘12). Malarctic lagraviere is another good one to take the same approach with. Leave some flex to include a couple of “flasher” bottles (ducru, pontet canet, leoville lascases even) because it’s a great way to then find out for yourself if they are worth the premium.

You situation is not ideal, but what the heck, that’s what has been served to you. Your career sounds fun, so make this a fun wine experience. Quality, classic Bordeaux is generally much better with maturity, they take on a complexity that cannot be found in youth, sorta like us. However, as Craig notes, many are quite tasty in their youth, albeit somewhat primary. My first foray into Bordeaux while in my mid-to-late 20s has me drinking young Bordeaux because I didn’t know any better and did not have access to mature ones. And here I am in my mid-50s, and Bordeaux remains my passion. Some of the wines on your list, like Cantemerle, Sociando, d’Armailhac and Gloria, are wines that I bought way back then to start trying them, and they remain among my favorite QPRs. I really love the 2014 vintage and have bolded the ones I’d snag were I in your shoes, and additionally underlined those that I own. That 2014 Sociando is fantastic, by the way. Those same wines are fantastic in 2016 as well, though my sense is that vintage while require more time.

If possible, look into buying some wines from 2001, 2006 and 2008. These are excellent vintages that are a bit under the radar compared with vintages like 2005, 2009, 2010 and 2016. They will give you a good view as to drinking more mature wines at a relatively reasonable price. I would not buy 2007s or 2013s. They are lesser vintages. Certainly, there are good wines from those vintages, but you don’t have the experience to find them.

A couple more wines to try in the range of the wines you are looking at would be la Lagune, Croix de Beaucaillou, and Ferrière. You might also try second wines of top Bordeaux estates like Dame de Montrose.

You might try a bit of white Bordeaux from estates like Carbonnieux and Domaine de Chevalier. Certainly, to add to your wine education, you should try some sweet wines from Sauternes or Barsac. I highly recommend Chateau Climens.

Man, I love L’Avant Garde. Vincent is great. As the shop is located in Margaux, right next to Chateau Ferriere, the prices for their Margaux wines will be the cheapest.

Given the selection here, I’d purchase Brane-Cantenac, d’Issan, Ferriere, Giscours, Lascombes and Rauzan-Gassies in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2016 since some wines are made to be accessible young nowadays. I would really avoid the 2013 vintage. Alter Ego 2016 is also a good choice, and if you want something with a bit of age, it looks like they have Pavillon Rouge.

I’m also a really big fan of Branaire Ducru, Grand Puy Lacoste and Pichon Baron but otherwise I agree with most of what people are saying on the forum.

I also second what Howard said here as well. These white wines are divine and pair with many Chinese dishes that otherwise would be tricky to pair with.

This is good advice, even the 2008s will give you a different taste experience to younger wines and will give an indication of what mature Bordeaux takes like, although they will also last a while yet.

I’ll be a bit of an outlier - your original list of value wines was quite good, but would add the 2016 Fonreaud and Fourcas-Hosten to the list. Both are drinking quite well already as 2016 had so much freshness to the vintage. I own both.

I would avoid any wine from 2013, and also think 2014, while quite good and inexpensive, needs beyond 2024 to shine. Have fun selecting!

200 bottles of Bordeaux? What are the other 800 bottles going to be?

Out of my head for mid range: Branaire 2003 and 2005, Tertre 2000, Pomerol Beauregard 2005 and Feytit Clinet, L’Arrosee 2006, Boyd Cantenac 2005, D de Chevalier 2004, Ht Batailley 2005, Dame de Montrose 2005, Lafon Rochet 2003, Clos de l’Oratoire 2000 and 2005…
I did not check current prices but I bought a case of these at decent prices and they delivered and drink well now

With all the politics at State, I’d be surprised if you really stay at your post till 2024. I wouldn’t overthink it too much, but try a couple 2014’s, since that was a ‘softer’ year, as 2009 and anything older than that with the exception of 05.

Consider 2nd wines like Baron de Brane. They drink better earlier in many cases.

Stellar advice all around, thank you everyone!

Haha I’m quite open to unsolicited answers that involve great recommendations like this. I will definitely grab the whites you recommended and I also had my eye on ruinart and billecart so glad to hear they’re good. I also like your more focused approach with only 8-12 different wines and really learning to appreciate differences between the vintages–I’m going to try that (in addition to probably buying a whole lot of other stuff haha). And you’ve convinced to me to reach a little higher and try some of the flasher bottles you mentioned!

There are some trade-offs, like not really being able to build a wine collection (something I plan to do whenever I return home), but it is indeed a fun career. Thanks for the specific chateaux recommendations–if you’re still drinking them 30 years later, they must be good! I’ll be sure to grab all those.

Great, I’ve added both to my list, thank you. And duly noted on 2013, glad to have that confirmed–I will probably end up doing verticals of a few chateaux, so that way I can see just how 2013 differs.

There are a few wines from 2008 with this merchant that I’m planning to snag, but not many from 2001 and 2006 in my price range. No la Lagune or Dame de Montrose available, but I’ve added Croix de beaucaillou and Ferriere, as well as your suggestions on bordeaux blanc and sauterne (I’ve never tried a sauterne before, looking forward to it). Thanks for the recommendations!

Oh wow, super cool you know the owner–I’m looking forward to visiting in person whenever I can travel outside China. Great recommendations all around, I’ve added almost all your suggestions to my list. Not sure I’m ready to pull the trigger on that pavillon rouge but we’ll see! And great point re: pairing with Chinese food, I love the cantonese cuisine here in Guangzhou but it’s often so delicate I don’t even think of pairing it with wine. It’ll be great to have some appropriate whites to bring to dinner.

Thanks, sadly very few of these vintages are available but I’m definitely going to scoop up some later ones from most of these producers. Down the line I’ll certainly be looking forward to trying some appropriately aged bottles.

Very good point, although I’m not American–that said, our relationship with China is just as strained these days so one never knows. Worst case I’ll just have to up my weekly consumption–that or throw the best party ever

Great tip, thank you–yes I have a few seconds on my list but did not realize they drink better earlier, that’s good to hear. I’ve added Baron de Brane and Alter Ego, which I think someone else mentioned.

Armed with all this information, I’ve got a very solid list right now. I’m really looking forward to developing my palate and learning about the different styles, appellations, and terroir. It’s cool that all my colleagues are also placing pretty big orders, so we’ll be able to set up some cool vertical, horizontal, and other thematic tastings. I’ll be sure to report back on our findings!

Thanks everyone for the great advice and warm welcome to the board.