Value plays in St. Julien...

…I’ve been cellaring burgundy but not bordeaux, so consider myself more of a newbie in the bordeaux space. I’ve purchased a few pauillac (e.g., Clerc Milon) based on board recommendations, but want some exposure to St. Julien. I’ve had Leoville Las Cases and Ducru, and enjoyed them; but the price points have deterred me from cellaring too many of them. I consider myself a value guy–which is why my portfolio is getting smoked on a relative basis in the stock market (I digress)–so what would you buy in St. Julien today if you’re building a value oriented portfolio from scratch? Also, if newer vintages are better than older ones due to change in winemaking style or winemaker or owner, etc. please specify the date when the particular chateau/producer started to really excel/improve, so that I’m not buying the old underperforming stuff (i.e. value trap).

Thank you!

Branaire Ducru is my value pick in St. Julien. Lagrange is another good one.

Branaire-Ducru is my current go to for value. Langoa Barton too depending on vintage. Haven’t tasted any recent Gloria (post 2009), but older vintages were quite a steal. The great thing about Bordeaux is it is readily available to taste.

St. Julien is just small comparatively.

Those two and Gloria.

I’m re-exposing myself to Lagrange.

Lagrange is definitely in your wheelhouse. Why haven’t you been tasting them?

Jean… If I was you, I would read this page and follow the links to the chateaux in Saint Julien Learn about St Julien Bordeaux Best Wines Chateaux Vineyards Character

Thank you for the link Jeff! Loads of useful info…not sure if this is appropriate forum, but I’m going to buy 2019 futures…I’m guessing Winehouse LA, MacArthur and Sotheby’s are dependable/reputable and deliver on their futures.

lagrange is the move…actually randomly found a 2016 mag yesterday that i picked up for cheap.

I saw your other post. For Bordeaux, you might want to refer to my site. As for 2019, all those are good outlets, as are others. Check prices as they can vary widely. You can go to my home page and peruse reviews on 700 wines from 2019 in Bordeaux.

I really have no reasonable explanation. I’ve recently bought a few vintages, heck I found 2016 for $50. That’s a steal.

I struggle to pay that much for Lagrange. The 2000 was $27.99 on futures. The 2001 was about the same. It remains a $25-$30 wine in my head.

Pay what you want, but that 20 years ago. How many wines have remained at the same price level for the last 2 decades?

I agree about the price/quality of Branaire and have bought both the 2018 and 2019, which has been selling on futures for about $40. I also see strong reviiews for thr 2019 Lagrange and get the imprssion the quality is on the rise at the chateau. Gloria has also been getting good press for a number of years and the price has been creeping up as well. I just bought the second wine of Lagrange, the Le fiefs Lagrange 2019, on futures (sp) for about $24 per to see what this wine and price point has to offer from St. Julian. Further, other Bordeaux appalations like Margaux and St Esteph may have more price/quality wines to consider like Siran, Labegorce, Les Orme de Pez, Capburn and Meyney - all in the $25-$30 price range. Hey, won’t be too long before the 2020 Bordeaux are offered. So far, I have read that 2020s - early harvest/ripe vintage/average crop size. Looking forward to reading more about the 2020s in the months ahead.

Well, since I still have a fair sized stash, there’s no need!

I had an '86 Lagrange not too long ago. Good flavor profile but lacked the depth/balance I was expecting/hoping for. Had a hint of bitterness and a very short finish. Overall good, but not great. Paid $100 for it earlier this year, cellared by the store I bought it from.

I have a couple bottles of 2010 Brainaire-Ducru I’m looking forward to (never had that chateau before but read reviews here that interested me).

I’m a big fan of Lagrange and Branaire Ducru for relative value in recent vintages. Tasting through a wide range of Lagrange vintages two years ago made it clear to me that they are making better wine than at any point in the past. Also, they are a good example of how size can be leveraged to improve quality of the grand vin. They are the largest classified growth, and that gives them great flexibility in blending and vineyard management.

My picks for worst value in Saint Julien are Talbot and Beychevelle.

St. Julien I think is the most consistent of the Bdx appellations - I love Gloria from 2000 (gone), 2009 (almost gone), and have 2018 on order as the value play. I also enjoy Leoville Poyferre and think Las Cases is truly a super-second, yet is priced much lower than a first growth.

That said, I own and have enjoyed many others, including Langoa Barton, Leoville Barton, Gruard Larose, St. Pierre, Branaire-Ducru, and Talbot. Hard to go wrong; have fun exploring.

Most of my faves have been mentioned. Lagrange, both Bartons, B-Ducru, and Gloria come to mind (although the last of those has become a bit more overtly fruity recently). Beychevelle can be really good, but it is no longer anything like a value play, as Paul says. Bought a bunch of the '16 Lagrange in halves and am very pleased with that purchase.

I should caveat my statement about Beychevelle. I think the closest comp for Beychevelle in terms of quality in the appellation is Leoville Poyferre. Though they are very different stylisticallly.

Looking back, I see that 2019 futures for Beychevelle are priced at $71 versus $68 for LP. On that basis, Beychevelle is priced correctly, IMO. Still not a wine I would chase, but probably not bad value at that level.

Talbot at $46 on futures is terrible value. Saint Pierre, Lagrange, and Branaire Ducru are all better wines for less money.

My go to for St Julien has always been Leoville Barton and Leoville Poyferre. I’ve always found them to show well and reliable. Not sure about pricing now, but they have definitely always been below Ducr and LLC.