TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

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J Dove
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TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#1 Post by J Dove » October 16th, 2020, 6:33 pm

Bit of sulfur on opening that blew off quickly. Something close to mint/tarragon, some tart cherries and blood orange, and black walnut on the nose. Very aromatic. Mid-weight but energetic palate start through to a long finish. Plenty of ultra fine tannins and plenty of zip. This is the most wound up 2016 Barolo I’ve had so far. Reminds me of the 2013. Should be a great wine one day. Highly recommended.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#2 Post by John Morris » October 16th, 2020, 6:34 pm

Wound up?
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#3 Post by J Dove » October 16th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Sorry — on the palate, it is coiled up, tight, reticent, not giving everything...
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#4 Post by John Morris » October 16th, 2020, 7:48 pm

Ok. Thanks. It could imply energetic, which is why I asked.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#5 Post by J Dove » October 16th, 2020, 8:00 pm

Yeah, poor choice of words!
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#6 Post by Alexander Smith » October 17th, 2020, 5:27 am

This is one of the wines I am waiting to come in
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#7 Post by Kirk.Grant » October 17th, 2020, 5:36 am

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 5:27 am
This is one of the wines I am waiting to come in
Ditto
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#8 Post by F.Daner » October 17th, 2020, 6:31 am

Thanks for sharing. I will give mine many years I hope. I think I'll go with the Gramolere first for the Cru and start with the normale.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#9 Post by Alexander Smith » October 17th, 2020, 6:58 am

We will hopefully get the normal in Quebec early next year which will come in at $55CAD which is insane for the quality. Monica Larna gave it 95 and along with the Vietti Castiglione seems to be the two basic Barolo with the best ratings.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#10 Post by AAgrawal » October 17th, 2020, 7:25 am

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:58 am
We will hopefully get the normal in Quebec early next year which will come in at $55CAD which is insane for the quality. Monica Larna gave it 95 and along with the Vietti Castiglione seems to be the two basic Barolo with the best ratings.
The Alessandria Classico 2016 is a rock star. Really lovely for the price. I need to pick up more... I think it certainly has the ability to age for a decade or two and improve.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#11 Post by michael ottesen » October 17th, 2020, 7:26 am

I Think Pio cesare basis Barolo got 95 points
as well [cheers.gif]

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#12 Post by Alexander Smith » October 17th, 2020, 7:40 am

Based on my own tasting style I am less excited by the Pio Cesare since it seems a little more old school but might try a bottle along with the Vajra, having had the Vietti and FA before I know these will be stellar
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#13 Post by John Morris » October 17th, 2020, 8:34 am

Alexander Smith wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:40 am
Based on my own tasting style I am less excited by the Pio Cesare since it seems a little more old school but might try a bottle along with the Vajra, having had the Vietti and FA before I know these will be stellar
Pio Cesare was very much in the modernist camp back in the 90s. They've pulled back and now do long fermentations and age mostly in botte (large wood tanks), but they still age what they say is a small portion of each of their Barolos and Barbarescos in barriques, so I don't think they're uber-traditional. And the photos of their cellar show a lot of small barrels.
https://www.piocesare.it/en/categorie-v ... ollection/
https://www.piocesare.it/en/photo-gallery/
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#14 Post by Mike Grammer » October 17th, 2020, 8:47 am

J Dove wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 6:33 pm
Should be a great wine one day. Highly recommended.
Maybe one day a long way off? :) I have only had something from this family once, at a lunch 5 years ago, but memorable? Absolutely memorable:

"1964 Alessandria Luigi & Figli Barolo

This, on the other hand, was singing, with a smokier, creamier nose, touches of funk and yet-lively tannins framed around tasty and delicious earth-edged strawberry and cranberry. These are the oldest baroli I've tried and I can hope and see where magic really is possible."
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#15 Post by John Morris » October 17th, 2020, 9:17 am

Another branch of the Alessandria family owns Burlotto.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#16 Post by ybarselah » October 17th, 2020, 9:28 am

John Morris wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 9:17 am
Another branch of the Alessandria family owns Burlotto.
well, that's a TIL! can you please provide more details. super interesting.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#17 Post by John Morris » October 17th, 2020, 10:28 am

As I recall, the Burlotto and Frat. Alessandria families are not-too-distant cousins. Verduno is a small village.

As you probably know, the same family names are sprinkled all over the Langhe. Schiavenza at the other end of the appellation in Serralunga has also descended through a family of Alessandrias -- coming to rest with two sisters who married men named Pira and Anselma, whose families gave their names to other wineries in Serralunga.

And, of course, there are the two Mascarellos, two Rinaldis, several Borgognos ... etc., etc. Azelia is owned by Luigi Scavino, a cousin of Enrico Scavino of Paolo Scavino, whose winery is nearby. (I recall hearing that Marco de Grazia asked Luigi to change the winery name so as to avoid confusion with the Paolo Scavino brand.)

Here's Fabio Alessandria of Burlotto:
https://vinous.com/multimedia/in-the-ce ... o-dec-2016
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#18 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am

John Morris wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:28 am
As I recall, the Burlotto and Frat. Alessandria families are not-too-distant cousins. Verduno is a small village.

As you probably know, the same family names are sprinkled all over the Langhe. Schiavenza at the other end of the appellation in Serralunga has also descended through a family of Alessandrias -- coming to rest with two sisters who married men named Pira and Anselma, whose families gave their names to other wineries in Serralunga.

And, of course, there are the two Mascarellos, two Rinaldis, several Borgognos ... etc., etc. Azelia is owned by Luigi Scavino, a cousin of Enrico Scavino of Paolo Scavino, whose winery is nearby. (I recall hearing that Marco de Grazia asked Luigi to change the winery name so as to avoid confusion with the Paolo Scavino brand.)

Here's Fabio Alessandria of Burlotto:
https://vinous.com/multimedia/in-the-ce ... o-dec-2016
And of course all the various Conternos, though I recall some of them are not related.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#19 Post by J Dove » October 17th, 2020, 10:37 am

I have very high hopes for these 2016 Piedmont wines. When wine tastes this good young, and it’s not f*caked up with a lot of spooficatiousness, good thing usually come down the line. Again, I’m a BDX guy. But I’ve gotta believe these wines are going to be in a really nice place in a 10-15 years.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#20 Post by John Morris » October 17th, 2020, 10:43 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
And of course all the various Conternos, though I recall some of them are not related.
The Giacomo Conterno and Aldo Conterno properties were run by brothers, Giovanni and Aldo, respectively, now both deceased. Giacomo was their father. When Giovanni and Aldo went their separate ways, Giovanni retained the father's name and label for his winery.

I'm not sure their connection to Conterno-Fantini and Paolo Conterno, but they're all in the village of Monforte, so you can be pretty sure they're related.

We could also add the Grassos to the list: Elio and Silvio.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#21 Post by Greg K » October 17th, 2020, 10:49 am

John Morris wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:43 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
And of course all the various Conternos, though I recall some of them are not related.
The Giacomo Conterno and Aldo Conterno properties were run by brothers, Giovanni and Aldo, respectively, now both deceased. Giacomo was their father. When Giovanni and Aldo went their separate ways, Giovanni retained the father's name and label for his winery.

I'm not sure their connection to Conterno-Fantini and Paolo Conterno, but they're all in the village of Monforte, so you can be pretty sure they're related.

We could also add the Grassos to the list: Elio and Silvio.
I know the relationship between Aldo and Giacomo, yes; my recollection is that Paolo Conterno isn't related to them, but that may be my memory going in my old age.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#22 Post by David_K » October 17th, 2020, 12:39 pm

Anyone had the 2016 Alessandria normale yet?
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#23 Post by John Morris » October 17th, 2020, 1:37 pm

J Dove wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:37 am
I have very high hopes for these 2016 Piedmont wines. When wine tastes this good young, and it’s not f*caked up with a lot of spooficatiousness, good thing usually come down the line. Again, I’m a BDX guy. But I’ve gotta believe these wines are going to be in a really nice place in a 10-15 years.
+1
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#24 Post by Mikael OB » October 18th, 2020, 5:44 am

Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:49 am
John Morris wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:43 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
And of course all the various Conternos, though I recall some of them are not related.
The Giacomo Conterno and Aldo Conterno properties were run by brothers, Giovanni and Aldo, respectively, now both deceased. Giacomo was their father. When Giovanni and Aldo went their separate ways, Giovanni retained the father's name and label for his winery.

I'm not sure their connection to Conterno-Fantini and Paolo Conterno, but they're all in the village of Monforte, so you can be pretty sure they're related.

We could also add the Grassos to the list: Elio and Silvio.
I know the relationship between Aldo and Giacomo, yes; my recollection is that Paolo Conterno isn't related to them, but that may be my memory going in my old age.
I think you are right, if I recall correctly from one of Levi’s podcast episodes that Conternos were not all related (believe the name was related to a village or something).

As for the Alessandria and Burlotto - should be first cousins. One of the Alessandria brothers married into the Burlotto family. Thanks to Levi for that insight as well (all there for those curious to hear more).

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#25 Post by Claus Jeppesen » October 18th, 2020, 7:42 am

Mike Grammer wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:47 am
J Dove wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 6:33 pm
Should be a great wine one day. Highly recommended.
Maybe one day a long way off? :) I have only had something from this family once, at a lunch 5 years ago, but memorable? Absolutely memorable:

"

This, on the other hand, was singing, with a smokier, creamier nose, touches of funk and yet-lively tannins framed around tasty and delicious earth-edged strawberry and cranberry. These are the oldest baroli I've tried and I can hope and see where magic really is possible."
Only the Fratelli Alessandria on the first pic is from Verduno. Their 1964 (fifth from the left) was my WOTY in 2016
20161029_155558 (2).jpg
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#26 Post by J Dove » October 18th, 2020, 2:50 pm

Day three — last glass and better than the first. As the late Renato Vacca said on Levi’s podcast, that’s a good sign...
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#27 Post by Brent S » October 18th, 2020, 7:03 pm

Jim, with your inspiration I bought the last bottle at a local LA store.

Anyone have any thoughts on the other 2016’s at the following prices:
gramolere $75
San Lorenzo $66
Normale $45
Br@nt $prenkle

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#28 Post by F.Daner » October 19th, 2020, 3:04 am

I bought them all around that pricing and one of the new producers for me I'm most excited to try. First Bottle wines in Napa have more of the Monvibliero and the Gramolere at $70. I'm looking forward to trying the normale and Gramolere first.
Brent S wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 7:03 pm
Jim, with your inspiration I bought the last bottle at a local LA store.

Anyone have any thoughts on the other 2016’s at the following prices:
gramolere $75
San Lorenzo $66
Normale $45
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#29 Post by Dav1d S@wyer » October 21st, 2020, 3:23 pm

Thanks for the note. I have three of these coming as well.

On the topic of the various familial relationships in Barolo, my 2016 Piedmont buying frenzy led me to order Kerin O'Keefe's great book Barolo and Barbaresco - The King and Queen of Italian Wine. There's so much history about the various families and relationships. I've found this to be my favorite aspect of the book thus far. She also details each producer's winemaking approach fairly methodically - fermentation, maceration, and oak treatment specifically - to provide a more nuanced understanding of where each producer sits on the traditional vs. modern spectrum.

Highly recommended.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#30 Post by Mar3 Koslowsky » October 21st, 2020, 3:40 pm

I love reading these threads. Went pretty deep on 2016 Barolo. But my question is this- John Morris, when are you publishing a book on Barolo? You have an incredible knowledge base and are a walking library :)

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#31 Post by David_K » October 21st, 2020, 5:08 pm

What's the alcohol like on these wines? I've seen some pictures where it shows 15% abv on the Alessandria crus - higher than the 2015s, which honestly gives me some pause.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#32 Post by J Dove » October 21st, 2020, 5:48 pm

Honestly, I haven’t noticed the alcohol content in any of the 2016 Barolo I’ve tried.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#33 Post by asnitow » October 21st, 2020, 6:10 pm

John Morris wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:43 am
Greg K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 10:30 am
And of course all the various Conternos, though I recall some of them are not related.
The Giacomo Conterno and Aldo Conterno properties were run by brothers, Giovanni and Aldo, respectively, now both deceased. Giacomo was their father. When Giovanni and Aldo went their separate ways, Giovanni retained the father's name and label for his winery.

I'm not sure their connection to Conterno-Fantini and Paolo Conterno, but they're all in the village of Monforte, so you can be pretty sure they're related.

We could also add the Grassos to the list: Elio and Silvio.
Theres a Franco Conterno is Monforte as well!
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#34 Post by Adam Bitker » October 21st, 2020, 10:55 pm

David_K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:39 pm
Anyone had the 2016 Alessandria normale yet?
It's terrific and much more open for business than the Monvigliero as you might guess.

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#35 Post by F.Daner » October 24th, 2020, 6:41 am

Hi Jim- i posted a note on the 16 Scavino version. I saw you've had it as well. I have to think stylistically these are pretty different. Looks like you liked them both and they showed perhaps as expected. Any preference ?
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October 16th, 2020, 6:33 pm
Bit of sulfur on opening that blew off quickly. Something close to mint/tarragon, some tart cherries and blood orange, and black walnut on the nose. Very aromatic. Mid-weight but energetic palate start through to a long finish. Plenty of ultra fine tannins and plenty of zip. This is the most wound up 2016 Barolo I’ve had so far. Reminds me of the 2013. Should be a great wine one day. Highly recommended.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#36 Post by J Dove » October 24th, 2020, 8:17 am

For drinking today, I prefer the P Scavino Monvigliero. It’s a very hedonistic wine right now. I think the Alessandria will likely eclipse it in the future. But, I’m extrapolating my Bordeaux sense to Piedmont, which may or may not not be appropriate. Both are excellent wines.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#37 Post by F.Daner » October 24th, 2020, 10:00 am

That's my sense too Jim. I've not had the Alessandria or Burlotto versions yet from any vintage but the 16 Burlotto normale I would prefer to drink to this Scavino Cru on a consistent basis. I really enjoyed the Scavino and preferred it with food but I can tell I prefer a more classical style. I'm applying my Napa Cab perspective where I find a similar style preference.

Cheers
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October 24th, 2020, 8:17 am
For drinking today, I prefer the P Scavino Monvigliero. It’s a very hedonistic wine right now. I think the Alessandria will likely eclipse it in the future. But, I’m extrapolating my Bordeaux sense to Piedmont, which may or may not not be appropriate. Both are excellent wines.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#38 Post by F.Daner » November 1st, 2020, 3:21 am

This will be by next Normale I try. Just picked up a few more.
Adam Bitker wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 10:55 pm
David_K wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:39 pm
Anyone had the 2016 Alessandria normale yet?
It's terrific and much more open for business than the Monvigliero as you might guess.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#39 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 1st, 2020, 5:04 am

David_K wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 5:08 pm
What's the alcohol like on these wines? I've seen some pictures where it shows 15% abv on the Alessandria crus - higher than the 2015s, which honestly gives me some pause.
I don't know why, but Barolo is one of the few places where 15% doesn't cause as much alarm for me as other places in the world. The Elio Grasso Barolo Ginestra Casa Maté came in at 15% in 2008 & 2016. These are classically produced, wines of balance that will take a minimum of 10 years post vintage to start to unfurl, and in most cases longer is better.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#40 Post by F.Daner » November 1st, 2020, 10:00 am

Same here and the 2008 Elio Grasso I posted a TN on what singing and would never guess that alcohol level.
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 5:04 am
David_K wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 5:08 pm
What's the alcohol like on these wines? I've seen some pictures where it shows 15% abv on the Alessandria crus - higher than the 2015s, which honestly gives me some pause.
I don't know why, but Barolo is one of the few places where 15% doesn't cause as much alarm for me as other places in the world. The Elio Grasso Barolo Ginestra Casa Maté came in at 15% in 2008 & 2016. These are classically produced, wines of balance that will take a minimum of 10 years post vintage to start to unfurl, and in most cases longer is better.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#41 Post by F.Daner » November 1st, 2020, 10:03 am

psa if anyone is looking for the line up for Alessandria Union Square in NY has them. $40 for the classic if you buy 3 or more. I think they still have the base Brovia as well.
Fred

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Kirk.Grant
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#42 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 5th, 2020, 5:10 pm

  • 2016 Fratelli Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (11/5/2020)
    PnP, served in a Conterno Sensory glass. I'm glad that I opened one of these early. This is a wine that I think really will blossom with another 15-20 years sideways. scents of tar, black licorice, & black cherry. The palate leads with tannin, followed by tart cherry, clove, & orange rind. This is special, but clearly needs more time & patience. This light-medium bodied beauty is accessible now with an hour or so & a little air. Consumed over 2-3 hours and for the remaining two bottles I have I plan to check back again in 2031 & 2036 with my two remaining bottles.
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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#43 Post by C. Keller » November 5th, 2020, 6:15 pm

F.Daner wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 10:03 am
psa if anyone is looking for the line up for Alessandria Union Square in NY has them. $40 for the classic if you buy 3 or more. I think they still have the base Brovia as well.
But they look to only ship to NY. No?
Chris

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#44 Post by Sh@n A » November 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm

C. Keller wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:15 pm
F.Daner wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 10:03 am
psa if anyone is looking for the line up for Alessandria Union Square in NY has them. $40 for the classic if you buy 3 or more. I think they still have the base Brovia as well.
But they look to only ship to NY. No?
Happy to take delivery and ship a case out. Have a 12 pack shipper as well (although its not styro). Another WB helping me on another bottle down in Florida, happy to pay it forward! [cheers.gif]
/ @ g r @ \

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#45 Post by F.Daner » November 6th, 2020, 1:05 am

Hi Chris- they ship outside of NY. Mine just arrived in Tampa yesterday.
C. Keller wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:15 pm
F.Daner wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 10:03 am
psa if anyone is looking for the line up for Alessandria Union Square in NY has them. $40 for the classic if you buy 3 or more. I think they still have the base Brovia as well.
But they look to only ship to NY. No?
Fred

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Joined: March 31st, 2018, 6:19 am

Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#46 Post by C. Keller » November 6th, 2020, 7:14 am

Sh@n A wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm
C. Keller wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:15 pm
F.Daner wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 10:03 am
psa if anyone is looking for the line up for Alessandria Union Square in NY has them. $40 for the classic if you buy 3 or more. I think they still have the base Brovia as well.
But they look to only ship to NY. No?
Happy to take delivery and ship a case out. Have a 12 pack shipper as well (although its not styro). Another WB helping me on another bottle down in Florida, happy to pay it forward! [cheers.gif]
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Very kind but it would just be a 3 pack at most and I wouldn't succumb you to that pain for so little. Very much appreciate that.
Chris

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Re: TN: 2016 F. Alessandria Barolo Monvigliero

#47 Post by Sh@n A » November 6th, 2020, 7:26 am

C. Keller wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 7:14 am
Sh@n A wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm
C. Keller wrote:
November 5th, 2020, 6:15 pm
But they look to only ship to NY. No?
Happy to take delivery and ship a case out. Have a 12 pack shipper as well (although its not styro). Another WB helping me on another bottle down in Florida, happy to pay it forward! [cheers.gif]
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Very kind but it would just be a 3 pack at most and I wouldn't succumb you to that pain for so little. Very much appreciate that.
Pretty seamless and I have a 3 pack styro. That said, sounds like USQ ships.
/ @ g r @ \

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