Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#1 Post by Sh@n A » October 21st, 2020, 1:56 pm

I have a friend who is interested in picking up a case of "top" and "ready to drink" red wines for $100-300 to help him discover which wine regions/grapes he likes, across the world. The average bottle price he wishes to spend is about ~$200. He wants to see what gives him an "epiphany".

Curious to hear others ideas that fit that range:

Ideas that I have (some of these wines I have not had):
Barolo: 2006 Monprivato and 2001 Sandrone Cannubi Boschis, for two different styles
Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bage and a VCC, for two different regions
Napa: 2016 Greer and 1996 Montelena, for two different styles
Burgundy: Not sure how to approach, as bottles with age cost $
Rhone: Thinking Jamet Cote Rotie + something else
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2251
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#2 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » October 21st, 2020, 4:22 pm

1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
CT: rieslinghoarder

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

User avatar
Scott Brunson
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 10707
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 2:55 am
Location: in between coastal SC and south FL

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#3 Post by Scott Brunson » October 21st, 2020, 4:26 pm

^
Good call
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
On CT, I'm S1

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5960
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#4 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 21st, 2020, 4:29 pm

07 Angerville Champans, Taillipieds, or Ducs

User avatar
J D o v e
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 416
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 3:12 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#5 Post by J D o v e » October 21st, 2020, 4:33 pm

Does he drink a lot of wine or have a lot of exposure, or is he pretty inexperienced?
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

Dan Kravitz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 10th, 2010, 3:47 pm
Location: Harpswell, Maine

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#6 Post by Dan Kravitz » October 21st, 2020, 4:40 pm

Lots of Cote de Beaune 1er Crus available with bottle age that fit the criteria:

d'Angerville already mentioned.
Courcel Pommard Epenots or Rugiens
Jadot Beaune Clos des Ursules
Pousse d'Or Volnays
Bouchard Beaune Greves 'Enfant Jesus'
Chandon des Briailles Pernand Ile de Vergelesses, or for more money (but still within range) up into the Cortons

The key here is bottle age. The mentioned wines are emphatically not 'epiphany' wines under 10 years of age. At 10 - 20 or 30 they can be truly great.

Dan Kravitz
swillmaster - ITB

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#7 Post by Sh@n A » October 21st, 2020, 5:02 pm

J Dove wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 4:33 pm
Does he drink a lot of wine or have a lot of exposure, or is he pretty inexperienced?
40+ of age. Has drunk wine, but not a wine geek.
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
J D o v e
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 416
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 3:12 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#8 Post by J D o v e » October 21st, 2020, 6:34 pm

So I’ll make a suggestion — it would be interesting to get him a mix of well selected wines of various price points ($250 wines and $50 wines). All the better if you could get him to try them without knowing which is which — an experiment, if you will. The best education you might offer is that he learn he doesn’t need to spend that much $ to fully enjoy wine. He might even find he can’t tell the difference at this stage.

I’m drinking a $27 2016 Carema tonight. I’m pretty sure I prefer it to a lot of wine I have in my cellar that costs several times as much today. In the early 1990s, I remember not having a strong preference between the 1994 Lytton Springs and the 1994 Bryant Family. Hell, for all I know, I might feel the same way today. One of the beautiful things about wine today compared to 25 years ago is it is a LOT easier to find truly compelling wine for less than $50 a bottle. If he doesn’t have a lot of experience, IMO, the nuance will be lost on some large % of those bottles.

Just one person’s opinion. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

User avatar
Dennis Atick
Posts: 8628
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 6:48 pm
Location: East Atlanta

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#9 Post by Dennis Atick » October 21st, 2020, 6:41 pm

Burgundy:
(can find these with a bit of age on them in that $ range)

Lambrays
Drouhin Clos Mouches
Jadot Clos Saint Jacques
@decaturwinedude

User avatar
Chuck Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2332
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 7:58 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#10 Post by Chuck Miller » October 21st, 2020, 8:38 pm

Chave Hermitage
Chuck Miller

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#11 Post by Sh@n A » October 21st, 2020, 8:49 pm

Chuck Miller wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 8:38 pm
Chave Hermitage
Any particular vintage/price? Thanks
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16420
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#12 Post by Craig G » October 21st, 2020, 10:37 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 4:22 pm
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
This is actually a great idea. It’s consistently awesome.

If 1989 Lynch Bages is out of the price range, 1989 Pichon Baron or Pichon Lalande are great choices too.

If sweet wines are of interest, something like 1988 Climens or a 1985 vintage Port might be in the middle of the range. Or 2001 Rieussec or Suduiraut. Half bottles of Yquem could be in range from some pretty good years.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

User avatar
Chuck Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2332
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 7:58 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#13 Post by Chuck Miller » October 21st, 2020, 11:39 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 8:49 pm
Chuck Miller wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 8:38 pm
Chave Hermitage
Any particular vintage/price? Thanks
Chave is known for making great wine even in off vintages. Some (many?) vintages are going to be out of your price range. But they can easily use 10-20 years of age.
Chuck Miller

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 24448
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#14 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am

Sh@n A wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 1:56 pm
I have a friend who is interested in picking up a case of "top" and "ready to drink" red wines for $100-300 to help him discover which wine regions/grapes he likes, across the world. The average bottle price he wishes to spend is about ~$200. He wants to see what gives him an "epiphany".

Curious to hear others ideas that fit that range:

Ideas that I have (some of these wines I have not had):

Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bage and a VCC, for two different regions
Definitely VCC for right bank. You can get any of these excellent vintages for under $300: 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2004. They show the style well, and what’s cool, is that they cost less than the new releases! Lynch Bages 1989 is excellent, as is 1989 Pichon Baron, an archtetype Pauilliac. Perhaps you can get lucky and find a 1990 or 1989 Montrose for the budget. All winning.

Chave is a fantastic choice for the Rhone, I think 2012 falls in the budget. A 2011 Jamet would as well, and drinks excellently.
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)

User avatar
Ed Steinway
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1789
Joined: March 14th, 2010, 4:40 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#15 Post by Ed Steinway » October 22nd, 2020, 6:28 am

I like Craig's idea of sweet wines. 2001 Climens versus Rieussec would be fun. For Port, you could try a 40-year Tawny versus a 1985 Grahams or Fonseca, to illustrate the difference between Port aged in wood versus bottle. And for California, I would put a Monte Bello in the mix with something from Napa from a similar vintage, if you can find them.

Ed

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#16 Post by Sh@n A » October 22nd, 2020, 6:33 am

I am thinking my Barolo recommendations are weakish
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 39399
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#17 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 22nd, 2020, 6:42 am

Sh@n A wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 6:33 am
I am thinking my Barolo recommendations are weakish
I'm not knowledgeable enough to weigh in, but when I first read your list, my instant reaction was "2006 Monprivato is 'ready to drink?'" I know if I had a bottle in my cellar it would be marked for 2026 at the earliest
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1700
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#18 Post by Greg K » October 22nd, 2020, 7:07 am

I think this discussion is going to come down to style of wines, so rather than pick those, I'd probably suggest vintages:

Left bank Bordeaux: 2001, 2002 or 2004. I think these were solid vintages that produced good wines that are ready to drink, and are sandwiched between "vintages of the century", so can be had cheaper. Obviously if you can get some 89s, sure, but they'll command a premium. 2006 would also be a contender - a 2006 Haut Brion last year was fabulous.
Barolo: 2007 or 2001 (I had a great 2007 Brovia Villero a few days ago that spent about 3 hours in a decanter); 2001 is more structured but I also think is drinking pretty well.
Burgundy: 2002. I think 2007 and 2009 are also candidates, but more variable. I've found 2002 to be consistently great, even for some producers whom I don't ordinarily enjoy all that much.
Northern Rhone: 2004. I think 2011 is another choice, but some of those wines can be very shut down - the 2011 Allemand is weirdly massive, and the 2011 Jamet is not that approachable imho without a massive decant. All the 2004s are drinking great now; a 2004 Sorrel Le Greal out of mag last week was delicious. My least favorite 04 Northern Rhone that I can remember is actually Chave. pileon
Southern Rhone: Beaucastel of basically any vintage - they're not expensive wines and age great.
Tuscany: I've really liked the 2000s I've had, but that's been a total of 3 (and they were Pergole Torte and Soldera, so that may not be a vintage view :))
Right bank Bordeaux/Loire: I don't drink enough of either, so can't really comment.
California: Dragons be here; all I own is older Heitz/Corison, so have no clue :)
Greg Kahn

User avatar
alan weinberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13376
Joined: April 25th, 2009, 1:23 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#19 Post by alan weinberg » October 22nd, 2020, 7:17 am

Clos Ste Hune
1/2 b of Donnhoff Eiswein
Vega Sicilia Unico

Doug Schulman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5529
Joined: October 21st, 2009, 9:42 am
Location: MA

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#20 Post by Doug Schulman » October 23rd, 2020, 5:10 am

Why only reds? I think most people who enjoy wine and think they don’t like whites just haven’t tried the right ones. I am sure there are exceptions to that, but for someone without much experience, I don’t think there’s any good reason not to include some whites and a good bottle of champagne. Usually when I’ve gotten requests like this from retail customers they are under the impression that white wine isn’t as good for some reason.

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5960
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#21 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 23rd, 2020, 5:40 am

Premox

User avatar
Ethan Abraham
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1607
Joined: November 16th, 2010, 10:34 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#22 Post by Ethan Abraham » October 23rd, 2020, 6:19 am

You could certainly throw in a youngish white burg, plenty of excellent 1er crus from recent years in that price range. 2011 Lafon Charmes was great somewhat recently. Otherwise it's a crapshoot on the premox-era white burgs, and it's gotten very hard to find older ones at good prices.

10-15 year GG rieslings could fit the bill, have had great 09s from Emrich Schonleber and Schafer Frohlich.

01 prum ws auslese.

Older chave blanc an option but white rhone is probably near the end of the priority list.

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#23 Post by Sh@n A » October 23rd, 2020, 10:47 am

Thank you for the suggestions. Just a red case, which I failed to mention up front!
This is what I put together with an expanded budget, across mainly 2 retailers:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Napa: 2016 Greer, 1993 Abreau Madrona
Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bages, 2006 VCC
Rhone: 2016 Jamet Cote Rotie, 2010 Chave Hermitage
Burgundy: 2002 Bouchard Beze, 2012 Lucien Griotte
Barolo: 2008 Conterno Francia, 2011 Rinaldi Tre Tine
Champagne: 2008 Cristal, 2008 Taittinger Comtes
/ @ g r @ \

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#24 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 11:09 am

Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 10:47 am
Thank you for the suggestions. Just a red case, which I failed to mention up front!
This is what I put together with an expanded budget, across mainly 2 retailers:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Napa: 2016 Greer, 1993 Abreau Madrona
Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bages, 2006 VCC
Rhone: 2016 Jamet Cote Rotie, 2010 Chave Hermitage
Burgundy: 2002 Bouchard Beze, 2012 Lucien Griotte
Barolo: 2008 Conterno Francia, 2011 Rinaldi Tre Tine
Champagne: 2008 Cristal, 2008 Taittinger Comtes
A lot of these seem too young or structured.

I think Greg made a good call for 2004 VCC. It’s a very good wine and more ready than 2006.

2008 is a pretty young Conterno. Can you find white label Giacosa for your price range? Like 98 or 00 Falletto? (I’m guessing the 96 and 99 are too expensive.)

On Burg, if you are looking for archetypes, I’d swap out that Griotte and look for older Lafarge or D’Angerville per suggestions above.

Instead of young Jamet, look for older Gonon or Faurie or Sorrel Greal maybe to stay in price range?

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16420
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#25 Post by Craig G » October 23rd, 2020, 11:19 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am
Chave is a fantastic choice for the Rhone, I think 2012 falls in the budget.
I would go for a lesser year that’s more mature. Of all the wines I collect, Chave is the one I enjoy most in off years. 2002 is beautiful and well within the budget. Other possibilities are 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. Of course if bigger years fall into the budget they could be great options as well.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#26 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am

Craig G wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:19 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am
Chave is a fantastic choice for the Rhone, I think 2012 falls in the budget.
I would go for a lesser year that’s more mature. Of all the wines I collect, Chave is the one I enjoy most in off years. 2002 is beautiful and well within the budget. Other possibilities are 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. Of course if bigger years fall into the budget they could be great options as well.
This is a good call. I figured it would be too expensive but maybe not. I haven’t had the first 3 in many years, but now is definitely a sweet spot for well stored 94, 96, 97. Especially the latter 2 IMO.

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1700
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#27 Post by Greg K » October 23rd, 2020, 1:17 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:09 am
Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 10:47 am
Thank you for the suggestions. Just a red case, which I failed to mention up front!
This is what I put together with an expanded budget, across mainly 2 retailers:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Napa: 2016 Greer, 1993 Abreau Madrona
Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bages, 2006 VCC
Rhone: 2016 Jamet Cote Rotie, 2010 Chave Hermitage
Burgundy: 2002 Bouchard Beze, 2012 Lucien Griotte
Barolo: 2008 Conterno Francia, 2011 Rinaldi Tre Tine
Champagne: 2008 Cristal, 2008 Taittinger Comtes
A lot of these seem too young or structured.

I think Greg made a good call for 2004 VCC. It’s a very good wine and more ready than 2006.

2008 is a pretty young Conterno. Can you find white label Giacosa for your price range? Like 98 or 00 Falletto? (I’m guessing the 96 and 99 are too expensive.)

On Burg, if you are looking for archetypes, I’d swap out that Griotte and look for older Lafarge or D’Angerville per suggestions above.

Instead of young Jamet, look for older Gonon or Faurie or Sorrel Greal maybe to stay in price range?
I like taking credit for things, but this was not me :) I don't drink enough right bank to have such an opinion, but I think 2004s have been drinking great for a while, and they can be had relatively cheap. 89s are certainly better, but they're going to be vastly more expensive and there's another 15 years of worry about provenance. Even I have 2004s I bough on release, and I'm not that old. neener

I generally think looking for either the most famous possible grand cru (Beze!!) or the best year (82! 89!) is a mistake; it's the wrong way to approach it. I'd much rather have a great 1er cru Vosne/Chambolle from 2002 than a Bouchard Beze; a wine I've had a number of times and find utterly uninteresting. When I started drinking I did a bit of the same thing and kept wondering why "grand cru" Jadots didn't do much for me.
Greg Kahn

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#28 Post by Sh@n A » October 23rd, 2020, 1:28 pm

Please suggest an alternative to the 2002 Bouchard Beze at Benchmark for ~$300, or another retailer at ~$300 all-in (with tax!)
Last edited by Sh@n A on October 23rd, 2020, 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
/ @ g r @ \

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 24448
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#29 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 23rd, 2020, 1:29 pm

I’ve had three bottles of the 2004 VCC in the last 12 mos. an excellent buy, and like half the price of the new releases.
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#30 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 1:49 pm

Greg K wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:17 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:09 am
Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 10:47 am
Thank you for the suggestions. Just a red case, which I failed to mention up front!
This is what I put together with an expanded budget, across mainly 2 retailers:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Napa: 2016 Greer, 1993 Abreau Madrona
Bordeaux: 1989 Lynch Bages, 2006 VCC
Rhone: 2016 Jamet Cote Rotie, 2010 Chave Hermitage
Burgundy: 2002 Bouchard Beze, 2012 Lucien Griotte
Barolo: 2008 Conterno Francia, 2011 Rinaldi Tre Tine
Champagne: 2008 Cristal, 2008 Taittinger Comtes
A lot of these seem too young or structured.

I think Greg made a good call for 2004 VCC. It’s a very good wine and more ready than 2006.

2008 is a pretty young Conterno. Can you find white label Giacosa for your price range? Like 98 or 00 Falletto? (I’m guessing the 96 and 99 are too expensive.)

On Burg, if you are looking for archetypes, I’d swap out that Griotte and look for older Lafarge or D’Angerville per suggestions above.

Instead of young Jamet, look for older Gonon or Faurie or Sorrel Greal maybe to stay in price range?
I like taking credit for things, but this was not me :) I don't drink enough right bank to have such an opinion, but I think 2004s have been drinking great for a while, and they can be had relatively cheap. 89s are certainly better, but they're going to be vastly more expensive and there's another 15 years of worry about provenance. Even I have 2004s I bough on release, and I'm not that old. neener

I generally think looking for either the most famous possible grand cru (Beze!!) or the best year (82! 89!) is a mistake; it's the wrong way to approach it. I'd much rather have a great 1er cru Vosne/Chambolle from 2002 than a Bouchard Beze; a wine I've had a number of times and find utterly uninteresting. When I started drinking I did a bit of the same thing and kept wondering why "grand cru" Jadots didn't do much for me.
Oh, s#%*. It was Rob! Hi Rob - good call.

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 24448
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#31 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 23rd, 2020, 1:50 pm

Who the Phuck is Rob? ;)
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#32 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 1:58 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:28 pm
Please suggest an alternative to the 2002 Bouchard Beze at Benchmark for ~$300, or another retailer at ~$300 all-in (with tax!)
It’s not a bad option. Do folks know if the Bize 2010 Latricieres is open like some 2010s have been?

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+ ... e/2010/usa

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7523
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#33 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 23rd, 2020, 1:58 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 4:22 pm
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
When it is good, it is brilliant, but many were damaged by heat in transit.
ITB

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#34 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 1:59 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:50 pm
Who the Phuck is Rob? ;)
Hahahahaha. (I’ve never called you that before.)

You are robal though, which I always respect.

User avatar
Yao C
Posts: 1044
Joined: February 1st, 2017, 10:53 pm
Location: Portland / San Francisco

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#35 Post by Yao C » October 23rd, 2020, 2:05 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am
Craig G wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:19 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am
Chave is a fantastic choice for the Rhone, I think 2012 falls in the budget.
I would go for a lesser year that’s more mature. Of all the wines I collect, Chave is the one I enjoy most in off years. 2002 is beautiful and well within the budget. Other possibilities are 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. Of course if bigger years fall into the budget they could be great options as well.
This is a good call. I figured it would be too expensive but maybe not. I haven’t had the first 3 in many years, but now is definitely a sweet spot for well stored 94, 96, 97. Especially the latter 2 IMO.
1994 is drinking very well - had one couple of months ago. Was barely within the price range from Sommpicks when I bought it (no affiliation on my part)

Would also recommend 2002 and 2008 as possibilities
Last edited by Yao C on October 23rd, 2020, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C h 0 o n 6

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1700
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#36 Post by Greg K » October 23rd, 2020, 2:07 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:28 pm
Please suggest an alternative to the 2002 Bouchard Beze at Benchmark for ~$300, or another retailer at ~$300 all-in (with tax!)
Personally, I’d rather drink an 08 Drouhin Petits Monts than an 02 Bouchard Beze.
Greg Kahn

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1700
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#37 Post by Greg K » October 23rd, 2020, 2:08 pm

Yao C wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 2:05 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:24 am
Craig G wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:19 am
I would go for a lesser year that’s more mature. Of all the wines I collect, Chave is the one I enjoy most in off years. 2002 is beautiful and well within the budget. Other possibilities are 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. Of course if bigger years fall into the budget they could be great options as well.
This is a good call. I figured it would be too expensive but maybe not. I haven’t had the first 3 in many years, but now is definitely a sweet spot for well stored 94, 96, 97. Especially the latter 2 IMO.
1994 is drinking very well - had one couple of months ago. Barely within the price range from Sommpicks (no affiliation on my part)

Would also recommend 2002 and 2008 as possibilities
Jason and I had the 94 a couple years ago - it’s not as good as the 95, but it’s classic Chave that’s ready to go.
Greg Kahn

User avatar
Brian S t o t t e r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2251
Joined: April 21st, 2015, 6:05 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#38 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » October 23rd, 2020, 2:30 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:58 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 4:22 pm
1990 Chateau Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
When it is good, it is brilliant, but many were damaged by heat in transit.
I (or rather, Ron Kramer) must’ve gotten lucky then
CT: rieslinghoarder

2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

Sh@n A
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1445
Joined: July 9th, 2018, 8:21 am

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#39 Post by Sh@n A » October 23rd, 2020, 2:33 pm

swapped the 2002 Bouchard Beze for 2002 Lambrays
2010 Chave is locked in already, fortunately or unfortunately
Picked up an 2004 VCC for myself [cheers.gif]
/ @ g r @ \

Jayson Cohen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2650
Joined: July 9th, 2016, 4:29 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#40 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 23rd, 2020, 3:10 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 2:33 pm
swapped the 2002 Bouchard Beze for 2002 Lambrays
2010 Chave is locked in already, fortunately or unfortunately
Picked up an 2004 VCC for myself [cheers.gif]
We can open your bottle of VCC while I sit on my half case. [cheers.gif]

User avatar
Eric Ifune
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3821
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 7:43 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#41 Post by Eric Ifune » October 23rd, 2020, 3:18 pm

Any of the recently released 50 year old Madeira. This was added as a category a few years ago along with 20, 30, 40 year old.

User avatar
J D o v e
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 416
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 3:12 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#42 Post by J D o v e » October 23rd, 2020, 4:24 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 11:19 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am
Chave is a fantastic choice for the Rhone, I think 2012 falls in the budget.
I would go for a lesser year that’s more mature. Of all the wines I collect, Chave is the one I enjoy most in off years. 2002 is beautiful and well within the budget. Other possibilities are 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. Of course if bigger years fall into the budget they could be great options as well.
+1

Had the ‘99 a few weeks ago and it was an off bottle or in an odd place. Wasn’t corked. ‘97 is really nice.
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 24448
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#43 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 23rd, 2020, 8:13 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:59 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:50 pm
Who the Phuck is Rob? ;)
Hahahahaha. (I’ve never called you that before.)

You are robal though, which I always respect.
LOL, that robal Schmuck is a winebidding fool!
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)

Nathan Smyth
Posts: 3767
Joined: February 15th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#44 Post by Nathan Smyth » October 23rd, 2020, 9:49 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 7:17 am
Clos Ste Hune
1/2 b of Donnhoff Eiswein
Vega Sicilia Unico
This is an outstanding list for recent releases, but with bottle age, the prices simply explode:

DEW
Someone in NY has a 1998 @$425
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/donn ... wein/1/usa

CSH
Rare Wine has some older bottles @$475
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/clos+ste+hune/1/usa

VSU
1968: $1500-$2000
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/vega ... o/1970/usa
1970: There's a bottle at auction right now
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/vega ... o/1970/usa
1991: $550
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/vega ... o/1991/usa
1994: There's a bottle at auction right now
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/vega ... o/1994/usa
1998: $480 to $650
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/vega ... o/1998/usa
.

Nathan Smyth
Posts: 3767
Joined: February 15th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#45 Post by Nathan Smyth » October 23rd, 2020, 10:06 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 1:56 pm
I have a friend who is interested in picking up a case of "top" and "ready to drink" red wines for $100-300 to help him discover which wine regions/grapes he likes, across the world. The average bottle price he wishes to spend is about ~$200. He wants to see what gives him an "epiphany".
A few quick points:

1) In this market, you ain't gonna find an "Epiphany" at $200, except MAYBE with a recently-released champagne [but note below here that the 1996 champagnes are already heading into the stratosphere].

2) GET A WINE-SEARCHER PRO PRESCRIPTION BEFORE YOU START PURCHASING.

3) My jaw dropped when I started looking at just the "lesser" Grand Crus, like Clos de la Roche and Clos Vougeot. It simply ain't happening anywhere within a country mile of $200.

Here are some wines which appear to be available [i.e. physically present and actually on the market], right now in the United States, from what serious wine-snobs would consider to be rather down-market labels [meaning no Screagle, no 1st Growths, no DRC/Roumier/Mugnier/Rousseau, no Ramonet, no Keller, etc etc etc], but which I am confident would deliver for me:
1983 Brane Cantenac
~$200
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/bran ... c/1983/usa

1992 Corton Charlemagne Bonneau du Martray
? $200+ per bottle ? [auction for a "case" of two bottles]
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/cort ... e/1992/usa

1989 Brane Cantenac
$245
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/bran ... c/1983/usa

1994 Togni
~$250
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/togni/1994/usa

1991 Togni
~$350
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/togni/1991/usa

1996 Cuvee Elisabeth Salmon
$385 ???
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/elis ... n/1996/usa

1996 Taittinger Comtes
$395
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/comt ... r/1996/usa

1998 Donnhoff Eiswein
$425
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/donn ... n/1998/usa

1989 Palmer
$500
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/palmer/1989/usa

1989 Dauvissat Les Preuses
$549
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/preuses/1989/usa

1983 Palmer
$625-$800
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/palmer/1983/usa

1999 Herbert Lignier Clos de la Roche
$1200
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/h+li ... e/1999/usa
.
.

PS: If you were in Europe, then you could find some Rieslings & Gruners from Hirtzberger & FX Pichler, with some bottle age on them, but free Wine-Searcher isn't showing any aged Austrian wine for sale in the USA right now.
.

patrick c albright
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 688
Joined: July 26th, 2009, 9:53 am
Location: bend/napa

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#46 Post by patrick c albright » October 23rd, 2020, 10:10 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:29 pm
I’ve had three bottles of the 2004 VCC in the last 12 mos. an excellent buy, and like half the price of the new releases.
Agreed, great wine.

Add 1983 Pichon Lalande to the list.

Most older Chevillon are in that price range.
ITB

User avatar
Craig G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16420
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:57 am
Location: Town of Cats

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#47 Post by Craig G » October 23rd, 2020, 10:49 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 1:29 pm
I’ve had three bottles of the 2004 VCC in the last 12 mos. an excellent buy, and like half the price of the new releases.
Crap, now I have to delay my retirement again.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

R. Frankel
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1955
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#48 Post by R. Frankel » October 23rd, 2020, 11:51 pm

Still needs some work on Barolo. Your 2011 Rinaldi Tre Tine should be pretty good as an example of a young but drinkable Barolo. But your 2008 Conterno ... too young. I wouldn’t touch that. Benchmark has some Giacosa Barbarescos - e.g. the 2004 or 2001 Santo Stefano- which would be better choices. Yes they aren’t Barolo but they will be excellent exemplars of how good Nebbiolo can be. Or hunt around for white label Giacosa Falletto Barolo from 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, or 2004. Or splurge on a red label if you find one in your price range (admittedly a challenge). But these white labels are magnificent.
Rich Frankel

User avatar
Marcu$ Stanley
Posts: 1391
Joined: November 1st, 2010, 3:31 pm

Re: Archetype Wines for $150-350/bottle (drinking well now)

#49 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » October 24th, 2020, 11:13 am

I would add the 2005 Geantet-Pansiot Charmes Chambertin Grand Cru, available for $215 and $225 if you search Winesearcher. Have not had that wine but have had the 2005 Geantet-Pansiot village wines and they are superb, that wine should be fantastic.

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”