TN: Carlisle Zin PaganiRanch '18...(short/boring)

TomHill · November 11, 2020, 5:55pm

Decided to dip into my recently-arrived Carlisle stash, so opened:

Carlisle Zin PaganiRanch/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (15.2%; Plntd: 1895; + AlicanteBouchet/GrandNoir/Carignan/PetiteSirah; 315 cs) 2018: Very dark/near black color; very intense blackberry/boysenberry/licorice/SV peppery Zin quite dusty/OV bit earthy strong toasty/smokey/oak very black pepper/SonomaVlly Zin quite complex nose; rather tart/tangy very spicy/dusty/OV intense blackberry/boysenberry/Zin very SV black pepper very rich/ripe/lush quite structured some toasty/oak/smokey bit rustic/sauvage classic Pagain Zin flavor w/ ample rich/soft tannins; very long/lingering very dusty/OV intense blackberry/boysenberry/ripe Zin fairly toasty/smokey/oak strong black pepper/SV Zin very structured complex finish w/ ample ripe/soft tannins; a beautiful/classic expression of rustic Pagani Zin that needs age; needs at least a yr & should go out 10-12 yrs; as good as Pagani gets. $39.50

A wee BloodyPulpit:

I don’t usually try my Carlisle Pagani’s this fresh off the boat, but I had an xtra btl, so relented. A beautiful expression w/ the Alicante giving it that rustic/sauvage character you typically find in Pagani. Beautiful Zin w/ a great future.
Tom

David_Chow · November 11, 2020, 6:25pm

Decided to dip into my recently-arrived Carlisle stash, so opened:

Carlisle Zin PaganiRanch/SonomaVlly/SonomaCnty (15.2%; Plntd: 1895; + AlicanteBouchet/GrandNoir/Carignan/PetiteSirah; 315 cs) 2018: Very dark/near black color; very intense blackberry/boysenberry/licorice/SV peppery Zin quite dusty/OV bit earthy strong toasty/smokey/oak very black pepper/SonomaVlly Zin quite complex nose; rather tart/tangy very spicy/dusty/OV intense blackberry/boysenberry/Zin very SV black pepper very rich/ripe/lush quite structured some toasty/oak/smokey bit rustic/sauvage classic Pagain Zin flavor w/ ample rich/soft tannins; very long/lingering very dusty/OV intense blackberry/boysenberry/ripe Zin fairly toasty/smokey/oak strong black pepper/SV Zin very structured complex finish w/ ample ripe/soft tannins; a beautiful/classic expression of rustic Pagani Zin that needs age; needs at least a yr & should go out 10-12 yrs; as good as Pagani gets. $39.50

A wee BloodyPulpit:

I don’t usually try my Carlisle Pagani’s this fresh off the boat, but I had an xtra btl, so relented. A beautiful expression w/ the Alicante giving it that rustic/sauvage character you typically find in Pagani. Beautiful Zin w/ a great future.
Tom

Thanks for sharing. How would rate this Carlisle against the Ridge Pagani? Favor one more than the other?

TomHill · November 11, 2020, 7:22pm

Well, David… sorta comparing apples & oranges. Much different in style. Guess I’d give the edge to the Carlisle based on sheer hedonism. Much bigger & more extracted.
Tom

Drew_Goin · November 11, 2020, 9:50pm

Thanks for the tasting note Tom!

I recently watched a few Ridge YouTube videos - some were ZOOM events. It was mentioned that the Amantite family was replanting a vacant section of the property a while back, and Ridge requested that more Petite Sirah be included, as they found too much Alicante Bouschet gave their blend a Concord grape juice-like quality. The additional PS reflected Ridge’s desired flavor profile.

Personally, I haven’t yet popped a Carlisle “Pagani” bottling, nor have I had more than one or two of Ridge’s version. I did drink a few of the St Francis single-vineyard “Pagani” blends back in the day (perhaps even a straight Ali Bou IIRC?).

However, I don’t recall detecting an overly Concord-like element in any Sonoma Zinfandel-dominant field blends which included Alicante, especially since few included >5% in total. What are your thoughts or experiences on this matter?

David_Chow · November 11, 2020, 11:34pm

Thanks for making my decision easier now, Tom.

Gabe_Berk · November 12, 2020, 12:30am

Used to work at St. Francis Winery who made an incredible rendition of Pagani Zinfandel in the 1990’s. At the time, St. Francis Winery vineyard mgr. Dino Amantite farmed and managed Pagani Vineyard as his mother was the owner. Fell in love with that vineyard (and their bass pond) and is my favorite Old Vine Zinfandel (mixed blacks) vineyard for many reasons. I’ve had numerous Ridge, St. Francis, Carlisle, Bedrock, Biale and Seghesio Pagani Zin’s and they all are different, but with a common thread. Ridge always seems to be more refined and prettier than some of the hedonistic Carlisle and St. Francis renditions. All in all a fantastic bottle no matter who makes the wine. Big and bold with just enough acidity to not knock you out cold.

TomHill · November 12, 2020, 12:40am

Well, Drew… I’ve had plenty of 100% Alicantes. I can see what they’re trying to say. AB has a strong cheap grapey character (in addition to being black as the ace of spades) that I can see them calling it like Concord. But it doesn’t have have the methyl anthranilate character of Labrusca. So I can see them wanting a more high-toned character from the PetiteSirah. Gads… never have used PS & high-toned in the same sentence!!
Mike as made a couple of AB’s in the past that were pretty good, if a bit rustic. If anybody could, he could make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Tom

Kris_Patten · November 12, 2020, 5:45am

I remember some great stories, my favorite being about the deer in the Pagani vineyard and being asked why they didn’t have a fence to keep the deer out, or some other deterrent, and the answer was “there are enough grapes to make wine and for the deer.”

Gabe_Berk · November 12, 2020, 5:31pm

Used to work at St. Francis Winery who made an incredible rendition of Pagani Zinfandel in the 1990’s. At the time, St. Francis Winery vineyard mgr. Dino Amantite farmed and managed Pagani Vineyard as his mother was the owner. Fell in love with that vineyard (and their bass pond) and is my favorite Old Vine Zinfandel (mixed blacks) vineyard for many reasons. I’ve had numerous Ridge, St. Francis, Carlisle, Bedrock, Biale and Seghesio Pagani Zin’s and they all are different, but with a common thread. Ridge always seems to be more refined and prettier than some of the hedonistic Carlisle and St. Francis renditions. All in all a fantastic bottle no matter who makes the wine. Big and bold with just enough acidity to not knock you out cold.

I remember some great stories, my favorite being about the deer in the Pagani vineyard and being asked why they didn’t have a fence to keep the deer out, or some other deterrent, and the answer was “there are enough grapes to make wine and for the deer.”

Deers- Zero carbon foot print grape cluster thinning

Leon_Katraix · November 12, 2020, 5:58pm

I remember some great stories, my favorite being about the deer in the Pagani vineyard and being asked why they didn’t have a fence to keep the deer out, or some other deterrent, and the answer was “there are enough grapes to make wine and for the deer.”

Reminds me of the story Will Bucklin tells in “Wildlife In The Vineyard”
"A place that is alive and beautiful is essential to the ethos of Old Hill. There is an ebb and flow, with dramatic seasonal changes, where life and natural beauty are important farming details. When it feels alive, it is a much more pleasant place to be.

Many years ago Joel Peterson, Ravenswood founder and longtime buyer of Old Hill fruit, was frustrated with Otto because he wouldn’t fix the deer fence and the deer were eating all the grapes. Otto’s reply was, “deer gotta eat, too.”

“Deer gotta eat, too” has become a family joke. We say it when we don’t want to do something, like fix a fence, for example. But Otto had a point, and although there are more deer in Sonoma Valley now than in any time before, there is much we can do to create habitats and coexist."

TomHill · November 17, 2020, 10:54pm

After the Veronese Rosso fail, I just wanted something good. So I opened up anuther btl of this Carlisle Pagani '18. It was much different in character. It showed quite a bit lighter and not nearly as rich/lush as the first btl. The lush fruit was much less and the rustic/sauvage character of Pagani was far stronger. It was harder/more angular and more towards the Ridge style w/o all the Am.oak. Still a pleasurable btl of Pagani that needs age but not as much fun as the first btl.
Tom