Xinomavro, Mencia, Nerello Mascalese, ???????

You may or not see any similarities between these grapes, but which one(s) do you prefer and why? Is there another a similar grape that you like.

I see them as similar in some respects to pinot, nebbiolo and gamay, but, especially the first two, are still a bit niche compared to pinot and nebbiolo.

Yes, yes, yes, stupid question. Blah, blah, blah…

Hmm…I do not really see similarities in any of these other than they are different from most of what people drink. I am gravitated to the later two. Mencia is, from the best producers, very appealing. Nero Mascalese in the right hands can make some profound wines. Xinomavro? No experience yet that has impressed me, limited as it is.

Drank my last Xinomavro last night with lasagne and was to a Mencia tasting just before the new year’s eve. It gas been probably more than a month since I’ve had a good Etna, though.

I think that many a Xinomavro can be strikingly Nebbiolo-like, but there are also lots of wines that have a unique character of their own. Mencia can sometimes be either like Pinot Noir, sometimes like Gamay and often a thing of its own. Can’t find much similarity between Nerello M. and the other varieties, apart from the high acidity and good capacity to express terroir.

And choosing my personal favorite of these six varieties is what’s impossible. I don’t understand why these six varieties that have very unique traits are singled out and should be somehow listed in some kind of order. I love them all, and for wildly different reasons.

Seems like a good group. All three are varietals that produce wines that are both delicious and cerebrally attractive. The best wines are extraordinary(I’m referring specifically to Mencia and Nerello Mascalese here as I have more familiarity with them).
I don’t drink them nearly as often as I would like, and have definitely given thought to what Mencia might do if it grew in Oregon. That said, it was mostly just a speculative form of admiration for the grape.

Kelly, thanks for the reply. It’s not a problem if you don’t see the connection. That’s not important.

So, you rate mencia and Nerello quite highly when done right. That’s good to know.

I’m sure you’d really like Xinomavro. Especially if you like Nebbiolo. There is quite a similarly between them. Others may disagree.

BTW I’ve enjoyed some of your recent postings. KUTGW!

Thanks Otto. I knew you’d join in here. That’s great! It’s good we agree on some things as well. We’re always going to disagree on others. As I’ve already said, whether or not they are similar isn’t a big issue.

I agree on the Nebbiolo comparison with xinomavro (I made the comparison above before seeing your reply) and that NM is quite distinctive. I do find mencia hard to nail down. You mention pinot and gamay, I’ve also heard it being compared with syrah.

Thanks Marcus. They are nice, aren’t they? You should give Xinomavro a try if you like nebbiolo (which I’m sure you do.)

I love me a good Northern Rhône Syrah, but haven’t seen anything Syrah-like in Mencía, be it Rhône Syrah or Australian Shiraz we’re comparing it to.

The Mencías of Galicia (mainly Ribeira Sacra) are often very Burgundian, making the wine often come across either as a delicate, red-toned Pinot Noir or a fresh yet darker-toned, lighter-end Cru Beaujolais. The wines of Bierzo are more singular, coming often across as noticeably more concentrated and weightier in style. Some wines can feel like plush and heavy hot-year Gamay, but more often they are a thing of their own. There are some good producer making more light-handed Mencías in Bierzo, but on average I prefer the lighter and more delicate style of Galicia Mencía. Nevertheless, I’ve really seen nothing particularly Syrah-like in the wines of either of these regions. I really don’t have experience on Mencía outside these regions - probably because there is so very little grown outside them.

Thanks, Otto. That syrah comment wasn’t from me, but somebody seemed to believe it!

I only know Bierzo and not RS. Although I didn’t state it in the OP, I’m assuming these varieties are from their home base Greece (Macedonia province, especially Naoussa), Galicia (RS/Bierzo) and Etna, respectively.

It is one of the most important red grapes in the Dão, where it is known as Jaen. Though most often blended, there are varietal examples, too.

Yes, I actually remembered a bit earlier that Jaen was one of Mencía’s synonyms and having tasted a few varietal Portuguese Jaen wines. Never had anything particularly memorable though - it seems the variety doesn’t seem to produce as impressive results there, which might explain why it is more often seen as a blending component.

However, as a blending component I can imagine Jaen can work quite well; it seems to be more like a “medium-everything” in character, so it can easily tone down the extremes of the other varieties, be they softer or more tannic, lighter or heavier, lacking in acidity or being too high in acidity (although this last quality probably isn’t a problem in Portugal, I assume?).

I guessed Burgundy the first time a friend blinded me on Envinate’s Lousas (2016 vintage). So i am with you on the Pinot Comparison for Ribeira Sacra Mencía :smiley:

I have tasted very little Xinomavro, but what i tasted could indeed feel a bit Nebbiolo like, and i do think some Etna Nerello’s can have some of the qualities you find in Nebbiolo as well. But it is only with some of them i think Piedmont Nebbiolo, best example for me is Pietradolce’s Archineri Rosso, in the 2014 vintage, which felt very Nebbiolo like, other vintages not so much.

I think all grapes mentioned can create stunning wines, so i am not going to rate them :smiley:

Viticulture plays a major issue. Jaen’s short vegetative cycle has encouraged quantity based approaches, and it is rarely planted in well drained parcels with good sun exposure. That is the useful blending Jaen you describe.

Two producers which take a quality based approach to varietal Jaen are Quinta das Maias (from the same owners as Quinta dos Roques) and João Tavares de Pina’s Quinta da Boavista (curiously enough he labels one of his varietal wines ‘Jaen’ and the other ‘Mencia’, for stylistic reasons, even though they come from the same estate). I think you’d enjoy JTP’s whole portfolio, as he is pretty outwardly AFWE in his stylistic approach. The wines from Maias are more balanced and fruit forward, but they actually pick the Jaen before any of the white grapes, in order to safeguard acidity.

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Thanks for the tips, I really need to keep my eyes peeled for these ones! Especially the Tavares de Pina’s wines sound like my thing.

I suppose these wines don’t have anything in common with the Quinta da Boavista wines from Douro - apart from the name?

am I the only one who sees some Sangiovese in Mencia? Sangiovese is obviously night and day different young vs well aged, but as Sangiovese shifts from cherry to fig there is a point where I find them to be very similar.

I can e-mail you the translation of a recent magazine piece covering his wines, along with a handful of tasting notes. They are absolutely your thing - high acid, low alcohol, non-interventionist and/or experimental winemaking, as well as a disinterest in conforming to AOC rules. No relation to Sogevinus’ Quinta da Boavista in the Douro and its portly, critic friendly reds.

Commonalities? None by taste, but geographically they all come from Mediterranean countries, so would tend to have a sunny disposition :slight_smile:

I’d say xinomavro is more like a tannat, but that’s just me. Mencia to me feels more like syrah mixed with gamay, and the nerellos (yes, both of them) are their own thing.

Sure, sounds interesting!

Tongue-in-cheek, I know, but a good excuse to go into some level of detail on this…
Sure, Sicily is right in the middle of the Mediterranean, but the climate and weather/growing conditions of Nerello Mascalese’s best terroirs across and around Etna all have very strong continental and mountain climate aspects. The altitude, for one thing, as many of the best vineyards lie between 500 and 1000 metres ATSL. Also, Piano Battaglia on Etna itself and the nearby Madonie range have ski resorts.
Both Bierzo and Ribeira Sacra are far closer to the Atlantic, which, unlike the Mediterranean, does have a considerable influence on viticulture there. Both could be characterised as fully continental/cool climates.
Naoussa sprawls across the foothills of Mount Vermio and is fully continental, although Fytia and Trilofos, its two southernmost great terroirs, tend to show some Mediterranean influence. However, Polla Nera, a mere 20-25 km away right across at the northern end, can be relatively glacial in comparison… Naoussa is a fascinating place. As for Xynomavro’s other two major growing areas, both Goumenissa and (to a somewhat lesser extent, I think) Amyntaio can be hot in the summer, but winters are, as a rule, quite harsh.

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It was tongue-in-cheek, written from the point of view of an American looking at a map of Europe with countries colored by nation-state. Of course, things are always more complicated than a cursory glance. It’s always nice having a European point out our parochialism!