Proof that coravin does not corrupt

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Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#1 Post by Glenn P. »

I have always had just a sliver of doubt as to whether a wine bottle that has been coravined might be affected negatively in some way...especially when a significant portion is taken. I don't have any justification for this doubt, but just wonder if all that space in the bottle is really gas and that no air got in. Well, I was doing some cellar inventory and discovered five bottles of a 2010 Gigondas I didn't realize I had.
One of them was coravined with about 40% of the wine gone. It has to be at least four years ago that I coravined that bottle. So, I had some outside skirt steak ready for the grill last night and decided to pop that bottle. I honestly didn't expect it to be good...even though it was a Wine Spectator 95 and Parker 94 rated wine...there was that little sliver of doubt because of the coravin. Was I ever wrong. It was absolutely delicious and didn't even show signs of age. Moving forward I have 100% trust and confidence in my coravin!
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#2 Post by LasseK »

How do they actually age after Coravin has been used on them?
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#3 Post by Glenn P. »

Given this experience for me, that is the whole point...the coravin has no affect whatsoever on the aging of a wine. At least that is what I now believe.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#4 Post by mike pobega »

Interesting. Just last evening I finished a bottle of Brunello that I had coravined on Monday evening. The sampling Monday showed tight and ungiving while last evening's sampling was evolved and beautiful. I think there must be some air in there, how much, who knows.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#5 Post by Jason L. »

this is interesting to read as I stopped using my coravin a couple years ago. (caution -anecdotal experience:) we jumped on coravin the first month they were available and used it for a high-end tasting program. we accessed probably a thousand wines over three or four years. i found that almost every wine behaved differently in response to coravin, and it really mattered how often it had been accessed. a few wines were indestructible but most wines evolved gradually - faster than they would have without accessing. we typically pulled corks on wines that had been tapped more than a month ago or several times in close succession
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#6 Post by John Morris »

Glenn P. wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 4:49 am I have always had just a sliver of doubt as to whether a wine bottle that has been coravined might be affected negatively in some way...especially when a significant portion is taken. I don't have any justification for this doubt, but just wonder if all that space in the bottle is really gas and that no air got in. Well, I was doing some cellar inventory and discovered five bottles of a 2010 Gigondas I didn't realize I had.
One of them was coravined with about 40% of the wine gone. It has to be at least four years ago that I coravined that bottle. So, I had some outside skirt steak ready for the grill last night and decided to pop that bottle. I honestly didn't expect it to be good...even though it was a Wine Spectator 95 and Parker 94 rated wine...there was that little sliver of doubt because of the coravin. Was I ever wrong. It was absolutely delicious and didn't even show signs of age. Moving forward I have 100% trust and confidence in my coravin!
That's good news in this case, but I'm not sure it proves that Coravin is reliable or consistent, particularly over that time span. Some wines are more resistant to oxygen exposure than others because of their chemical make-up, and 2010 was a pretty structured year in the Rhone, I believe (ample tannins and acid).

Moreover, you didn't taste it blindly next to one of your other bottles. That would have been the real test!

Finally, preservation isn't just a matter of exposure to oxygen. The evaporation of aroma compounds is a major factor, and injecting inert gas doesn't stop that process, which can result in a less potent nose.

There's lots of counter-evidence from others here, who have seen some Coravined wines deteriorate over several weeks.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#7 Post by Brian Tuite »

I pulled a Quivet Cab from my cellar a couple months ago that was only 1/2 full and I don’t own a Coravin! Had to have been from a tasting with Mike a few years prior due to the vintage. Anyhow the wine was fantastic.

Then again I have had wines go bad after having been stuck with the needle only a few weeks prior. I think it depends in your cork and it’s a case by case thing.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#8 Post by Glenn P. »

Awe shucks! You guys have reinstalled some of that sliver of doubt I freed myself from. If I hadn't posted my experience I could have lived happily ever after in my little bubble of coravin confidence. Darn it all!
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#9 Post by alan weinberg »

probably bottle by bottle depending on cork.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#10 Post by John S »

For me observing one bottle where it stayed fresh is not something I would extrapolate as proof it can do this for all bottles and repeatedly. I love these type devices but have certainly seen cases where the wines have been exposed to some oxygen and taste accordingly. These are the minority but it does happen. I also typically drink these bottle over a few weeks and it works wonders. In my experience older corks are more prone to potential oxygen exposure and would have to guess repeated samples would do the same.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#11 Post by Paul Miller »

What do most of you feel is the general amount of time Corvain is good for? To stretch a bottle out over a week? Month? Longer?

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#12 Post by Andrew K. »

I've had the same experience albeit less than 5 years. But I've also had bad experiences in much less time.

I think one example is not "proof" other than to say it's possible to Coravin a bottle and have no issues. I think a lot is dependent on the cork type and condition as well as ensuring you use the Coravin properly to prevent oxygen from being introduced.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#13 Post by Mike C. »

Someone did a study on it: http://www.techniquesinhomewinemaking.c ... 20v0.1.pdf

Based on that, shouldn’t go much more than a month and lines up with my practical experience—it doesn’t go “bad” that quickly but you can tell it has matured more than should be expected.

If someone is curious, they should buy a case of cheap wine, Coravin half the bottle from half the bottles and then do a blind tasting a year later. My guess is there will be a noticeable difference in half of the glasses.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#14 Post by Rich Brown »

John S wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 6:57 am For me observing one bottle where it stayed fresh is not something I would extrapolate as proof it can do this for all bottles and repeatedly. I love these type devices but have certainly seen cases where the wines have been exposed to some oxygen and taste accordingly. These are the minority but it does happen. I also typically drink these bottle over a few weeks and it works wonders. In my experience older corks are more prone to potential oxygen exposure and would have to guess repeated samples would do the same.
You nailed it John. I love my coravin but use it as a short/mid-term preservation device on 'younger bottles (call it 20 years or less). In that sense, it works incredibly well! I've had more variable results with older bottles due to the corks being unpredictable, and as such have stopped using it with those. I also pop the cork once it's down to about 1/4 of the bottle, as i do notice the wine start to detereriate quicker once the fill level is that low.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#15 Post by Michael Levin »

Funny this topic hit today. I was planning a coravin sampling evening tonight with six of my best pinot. I've noticed comments based on "make-up" of wine. Does anyone think pinots are more susceptible to bad performance after being coravin'd?

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#16 Post by larry schaffer »

Paul Miller wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 7:04 am What do most of you feel is the general amount of time Corvain is good for? To stretch a bottle out over a week? Month? Longer?
Paul,

Kind of like asking the question - how long can you still continue to drink a bottle of wine once you've opened it? There are countless potential answers and it's hard to generalize based on the chemistry of the wine, the wine the wine was made, the closure, etc.

What I generally find is that once a bottle is more than 40% consumed or so, it doesn't matter what system you use - the wine generally does not hold up that well. Are there exceptions? Of course there are - but in general, that's what I've found . . .

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#17 Post by AAgrawal »

Mike C. wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 7:13 am Someone did a study on it: http://www.techniquesinhomewinemaking.c ... 20v0.1.pdf

Based on that, shouldn’t go much more than a month and lines up with my practical experience—it doesn’t go “bad” that quickly but you can tell it has matured more than should be expected.

If someone is curious, they should buy a case of cheap wine, Coravin half the bottle from half the bottles and then do a blind tasting a year later. My guess is there will be a noticeable difference in half of the glasses.
This is amazing. It completely confirms my experience, and it's nice to see the science behind it. I try not to access more than 1-2 times before opening the remainder and to not keep longer than 3 weeks based on personal experience. But despite the limitations, I still love and use my Coravin regularly especially on young wine.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#18 Post by R M Kriete »

Key is to do a quick purge of the needle before you access the wine. When I do this, the wine holds up indefinitely. If I forget, it seems that small amount of oxygen introduced starts to affect the wine. Just my experience.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#19 Post by Jim F »

Some other things to think about:
1. Was air expressed from the needle prior to cork insertion?
2. Was the wine stored on its side or standing upright?
3. Temperature of storage after puncture?
4.cork condition- I have actually jammed toothpicks into the hole in the cork. I do not bother anymore.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#20 Post by jordan jacobs »

Having used a newer model and the model 11, I have yet to have a bottle taste as fresh as day one with only 2-3 days of being back in the cellar.

Put differently, every coravined bottle is more advanced after the second day.

That is not the end result I am looking for.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#21 Post by larry schaffer »

jordan jacobs wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 3:38 pm Having used a newer model and the model 11, I have yet to have a bottle taste as fresh as day one with only 2-3 days of being back in the cellar.

Put differently, every coravined bottle is more advanced after the second day.

That is not the end result I am looking for.
If you want a wine to remain 'as is' after opening, I think you will be disappointed with any system. Even a small amount of oxidation will lead to changes. Even a small amount of headspace may lead to changes. But above all, WE are imperfect and will note things differently from day to day even if literally nothing has changed.

Just my $.02 . . .

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#22 Post by Stan Y. »

jordan jacobs wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 3:38 pm Having used a newer model and the model 11, I have yet to have a bottle taste as fresh as day one with only 2-3 days of being back in the cellar.

Put differently, every coravined bottle is more advanced after the second day.
I agree. But I think it is the least-bad of the wine preservation techniques I've tried, so it still has some value.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#23 Post by Rich Brown »

R M Kriete wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 2:47 pm Key is to do a quick purge of the needle before you access the wine. When I do this, the wine holds up indefinitely. If I forget, it seems that small amount of oxygen introduced starts to affect the wine. Just my experience.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#24 Post by R M Kriete »

Found this blind taste test with 30 Somms done in Dec 2018 on wines Coravin-ed 3.5 years earlier:

Hosted by chairman and founder of Coravin, Greg Lambrecht, the test involved 30 sommeliers, two different wines, and eight glasses, and was designed to see whether Coravin, which uses a hollow needle to draw wine from a bottle without removing the cork, would damage a wine.

The tasting, which was blind, included a white and a red, and in each case, there were wines that had been accessed by Coravin on June 22, 2015 down to half a bottle, and those from the same case that had not been touched until that day.

The sommeliers were then asked to mark whether they thought the wines had been accessed by Coravin or not, as well as to identify the white and the red.

Lambrecht stressed that this was Coravin’s first “double-blind” tasting, because he normally tells the tasters what they are sampling, but not which wine has been previously accessed.

Due to the four-glass format for each wine, Lambrecht told the attendees that between one and three glasses could have been poured from the accessed bottles, while the random chance to guess the glasses correctly was 1 in 14.

After the tasting was over, Lambrecht asked for a show of hands from the sommeliers to see which glasses they believed were filled with wine that had been accessed 3.5 years ago.

While five correctly identified the white wines that had been previously accessed – glasses two and three – not a single attendee spotted all the reds, which were glasses 1, 2 and 4.

Before this, Lambrecht asked the somms to raise their hands if they thought that any of the glasses were oxidised, or not in a suitable condition for serving, and there were none.

For Lambrecht, this was the “most important result”.

The wines in the tasting were Kuhling Gillot Riesling, Nierstein Pettenthal, Grosse Gewächs 2009 from Rheinhessen and Hirsch Pinot Noir, San Andreas Vineyard, 2012 from Sonoma County. 10 of the attendees correctly identified the white wine as a Riesling from Germany while only one thought that the red was a Pinot Noir from California, with as many as 19 believing it was a Burgundy.

Lambrecht later told db, who took part in the experiment, that Coravin has now done similar tests with over 600 wine professionals from around the world employing 1200 sets of wine, including those previously accessed by Coravin between 3 months and 4 years prior to sampling.

In total, he said that such tests have been done on more than 60 different wines. He reported that the correct guess rate was a little less than 1/12 overall.

After the tasting was over, db asked one of the sommeliers who managed to correctly guess the white wines that had previously been accessed by Coravin, and they said the difference was barely perceptible, but concerned the amount of dissolved Carbon Dioxide in the wine, commenting that the CO2 was not evident in the wine that had been accessed by the tool.

On the other hand, the sommelier said that they couldn’t spot the difference between the reds.

The tasting was conducted in Montreal on 24 November, one day before the Somm360 congress started, which was a three-day event designed to help sommeliers obtain various qualifications and improve their standards.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#25 Post by HoosJustinG »

I’ve had great luck w/ Coravin ... I purge the needle before insertion, I don’t leave the needle in that long (not because of any specific direction but IMO just stands to reason that the cork will “snap back” both better and faster if the needle is out as quickly as possible) and I always use the smaller diameter needles. I’m not a restaurant and speed of service doesn’t matter to me when the difference is like 15 seconds vs 10 seconds. Vintage needle (cheaper) or gold needle (more expensive) are the smaller diameter needles that make the smallest hole in the cork.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#26 Post by Paul Miller »

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#27 Post by Jen M a s o n »

alan weinberg wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 6:51 am probably bottle by bottle depending on cork.
Yes. This.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#28 Post by Jen M a s o n »

Paul Miller wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 7:04 am What do most of you feel is the general amount of time Corvain is good for? To stretch a bottle out over a week? Month? Longer?
If it is a wine I care about, then I drink it within the week. Otherwise I might let it go 4-6 weeks max.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#29 Post by Chris Seiber »

R M Kriete wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:28 am Found this blind taste test with 30 Somms done in Dec 2018 on wines Coravin-ed 3.5 years earlier:

Hosted by chairman and founder of Coravin, Greg Lambrecht, the test involved 30 sommeliers, two different wines, and eight glasses, and was designed to see whether Coravin, which uses a hollow needle to draw wine from a bottle without removing the cork, would damage a wine.

The tasting, which was blind, included a white and a red, and in each case, there were wines that had been accessed by Coravin on June 22, 2015 down to half a bottle, and those from the same case that had not been touched until that day.

The sommeliers were then asked to mark whether they thought the wines had been accessed by Coravin or not, as well as to identify the white and the red.

Lambrecht stressed that this was Coravin’s first “double-blind” tasting, because he normally tells the tasters what they are sampling, but not which wine has been previously accessed.

Due to the four-glass format for each wine, Lambrecht told the attendees that between one and three glasses could have been poured from the accessed bottles, while the random chance to guess the glasses correctly was 1 in 14.

After the tasting was over, Lambrecht asked for a show of hands from the sommeliers to see which glasses they believed were filled with wine that had been accessed 3.5 years ago.

While five correctly identified the white wines that had been previously accessed – glasses two and three – not a single attendee spotted all the reds, which were glasses 1, 2 and 4.

Before this, Lambrecht asked the somms to raise their hands if they thought that any of the glasses were oxidised, or not in a suitable condition for serving, and there were none.

For Lambrecht, this was the “most important result”.

The wines in the tasting were Kuhling Gillot Riesling, Nierstein Pettenthal, Grosse Gewächs 2009 from Rheinhessen and Hirsch Pinot Noir, San Andreas Vineyard, 2012 from Sonoma County. 10 of the attendees correctly identified the white wine as a Riesling from Germany while only one thought that the red was a Pinot Noir from California, with as many as 19 believing it was a Burgundy.

Lambrecht later told db, who took part in the experiment, that Coravin has now done similar tests with over 600 wine professionals from around the world employing 1200 sets of wine, including those previously accessed by Coravin between 3 months and 4 years prior to sampling.

In total, he said that such tests have been done on more than 60 different wines. He reported that the correct guess rate was a little less than 1/12 overall.

After the tasting was over, db asked one of the sommeliers who managed to correctly guess the white wines that had previously been accessed by Coravin, and they said the difference was barely perceptible, but concerned the amount of dissolved Carbon Dioxide in the wine, commenting that the CO2 was not evident in the wine that had been accessed by the tool.

On the other hand, the sommelier said that they couldn’t spot the difference between the reds.

The tasting was conducted in Montreal on 24 November, one day before the Somm360 congress started, which was a three-day event designed to help sommeliers obtain various qualifications and improve their standards.
I don't own a Coravin and have no dog in this fight, but that evidence is pretty persuasive, especially because it is blind tasting, rather than the perception of someone who drinks a wine already knowing it had been Coravined a month ago or whatever. That knowledge likely plays a significant role in the taster's perception.

Have any of you tried blind comparisons of a Coravined bottle versus a newly opened bottle of the same wine? It would be even better still if the taster didn't know that was the difference, so he wouldn't be searching or guessing, but just giving his impression of the two glasses of wine.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#30 Post by AAgrawal »

I rarely find that wines that have been Coravined are oxidized, but I think they are clearly different. Sometimes I don’t mind slightly different, but sometimes it’s worse even if not flawed.

The marketing for the Coravin is that is preserves the wine as if you had never tried it. I find that’s false. If the marketing was that the wine wouldn’t be oxidized when you open it, then that is true.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#31 Post by R M Kriete »

AAgrawal wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 2:15 pm I rarely find that wines that have been Coravined are oxidized, but I think they are clearly different. Sometimes I don’t mind slightly different, but sometimes it’s worse even if not flawed.

The marketing for the Coravin is that is preserves the wine as if you had never tried it. I find that’s false. If the marketing was that the wine wouldn’t be oxidized when you open it, then that is true.

30 Sommeliers in a blind tasting would disagree with you neener

Always wonder how much our preconceptions affect our opinion

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#32 Post by AAgrawal »

R M Kriete wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 2:22 pm
AAgrawal wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 2:15 pm I rarely find that wines that have been Coravined are oxidized, but I think they are clearly different. Sometimes I don’t mind slightly different, but sometimes it’s worse even if not flawed.

The marketing for the Coravin is that is preserves the wine as if you had never tried it. I find that’s false. If the marketing was that the wine wouldn’t be oxidized when you open it, then that is true.

30 Sommeliers in a blind tasting would disagree with you neener

Always wonder how much our preconceptions affect our opinion
30 Sommeliers invited to a tasting put on by the creator of the Coravin.

I trust that article posted earlier in the thread. Seems like they really looked at this objectively and not with anecdotes.

Oh, and I say this as someone who uses this product regularly and just had a stellar interaction with their customer service team who replaced my unit for free due to a manufacturing defect out of warranty.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#33 Post by Paul Miller »

Any recs on which model to own?

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#34 Post by HoosJustinG »

Paul Miller wrote: January 26th, 2021, 5:55 pm Any recs on which model to own?
As far as I can tell, they all work basically the same. I think a “manual” model as opposed to an automatic (which automatically injects argon by just tipping the bottle) is better as it allows you to clear the needle just before insertion manually.

The more relevant consideration is which needle to use.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#35 Post by Paul Miller »

HoosJustinG wrote: January 26th, 2021, 6:16 pm
Paul Miller wrote: January 26th, 2021, 5:55 pm Any recs on which model to own?
As far as I can tell, they all work basically the same. I think a “manual” model as opposed to an automatic (which automatically injects argon by just tipping the bottle) is better as it allows you to clear the needle just before insertion manually.

The more relevant consideration is which needle to use.
And....?

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#36 Post by HoosJustinG »

Paul Miller wrote: January 26th, 2021, 6:30 pm
HoosJustinG wrote: January 26th, 2021, 6:16 pm
Paul Miller wrote: January 26th, 2021, 5:55 pm Any recs on which model to own?
As far as I can tell, they all work basically the same. I think a “manual” model as opposed to an automatic (which automatically injects argon by just tipping the bottle) is better as it allows you to clear the needle just before insertion manually.

The more relevant consideration is which needle to use.
And....?
The point is that the same needle options are available on all models. The cheapest model with a thin needle will do better at long term preservation than the most expensive model with the thickest needle.

I would not personally use the “fast pour” needle on any wine that wasn’t going to be consumed over a few days (a high volume bottle in a “by the glass” program, maybe where speed does matter and wasted time adds up). The other needles just simply don’t pour THAT slowly (and let’s face it, if you’re accessing 3-4 glasses, you’re probably pulling the cork) where for home use that makes any sense to me.

I use the “premium” needle as it claims the same diameter as the vintage needle but the same pour speed as the standard needle. Instead of a hole at the bottom like other needles, it has a mesh along the “body” of the needle, which I suppose allows for more flow than the vintage needle. I haven’t put calipers on it, but the pour speed is definitely substantially similar to the standard needle.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#37 Post by Mike Evans »

R M Kriete wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 11:28 am Found this blind taste test with 30 Somms done in Dec 2018 on wines Coravin-ed 3.5 years earlier:

Hosted by chairman and founder of Coravin, Greg Lambrecht, the test involved 30 sommeliers, two different wines, and eight glasses, and was designed to see whether Coravin, which uses a hollow needle to draw wine from a bottle without removing the cork, would damage a wine.

The tasting, which was blind, included a white and a red, and in each case, there were wines that had been accessed by Coravin on June 22, 2015 down to half a bottle, and those from the same case that had not been touched until that day.

The sommeliers were then asked to mark whether they thought the wines had been accessed by Coravin or not, as well as to identify the white and the red.

Lambrecht stressed that this was Coravin’s first “double-blind” tasting, because he normally tells the tasters what they are sampling, but not which wine has been previously accessed.

Due to the four-glass format for each wine, Lambrecht told the attendees that between one and three glasses could have been poured from the accessed bottles, while the random chance to guess the glasses correctly was 1 in 14.

After the tasting was over, Lambrecht asked for a show of hands from the sommeliers to see which glasses they believed were filled with wine that had been accessed 3.5 years ago.

While five correctly identified the white wines that had been previously accessed – glasses two and three – not a single attendee spotted all the reds, which were glasses 1, 2 and 4.

Before this, Lambrecht asked the somms to raise their hands if they thought that any of the glasses were oxidised, or not in a suitable condition for serving, and there were none.

For Lambrecht, this was the “most important result”.

The wines in the tasting were Kuhling Gillot Riesling, Nierstein Pettenthal, Grosse Gewächs 2009 from Rheinhessen and Hirsch Pinot Noir, San Andreas Vineyard, 2012 from Sonoma County. 10 of the attendees correctly identified the white wine as a Riesling from Germany while only one thought that the red was a Pinot Noir from California, with as many as 19 believing it was a Burgundy.

Lambrecht later told db, who took part in the experiment, that Coravin has now done similar tests with over 600 wine professionals from around the world employing 1200 sets of wine, including those previously accessed by Coravin between 3 months and 4 years prior to sampling.

In total, he said that such tests have been done on more than 60 different wines. He reported that the correct guess rate was a little less than 1/12 overall.

After the tasting was over, db asked one of the sommeliers who managed to correctly guess the white wines that had previously been accessed by Coravin, and they said the difference was barely perceptible, but concerned the amount of dissolved Carbon Dioxide in the wine, commenting that the CO2 was not evident in the wine that had been accessed by the tool.

On the other hand, the sommelier said that they couldn’t spot the difference between the reds.

The tasting was conducted in Montreal on 24 November, one day before the Somm360 congress started, which was a three-day event designed to help sommeliers obtain various qualifications and improve their standards.
What kind of idiot purports to conduct a valid blind test when gathering the results in a show of hands by the participants?

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#38 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y »

My tricks for using the Coravin (an original model) are to purge the needle before inserting, and to ensure the hole is sealed afterwards by dripping candle wax on it.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#39 Post by roybehr »

HoosJustinG wrote: January 23rd, 2021, 12:22 pm I’ve had great luck w/ Coravin ... I purge the needle before insertion, I don’t leave the needle in that long (not because of any specific direction but IMO just stands to reason that the cork will “snap back” both better and faster if the needle is out as quickly as possible) and I always use the smaller diameter needles. I’m not a restaurant and speed of service doesn’t matter to me when the difference is like 15 seconds vs 10 seconds. Vintage needle (cheaper) or gold needle (more expensive) are the smaller diameter needles that make the smallest hole in the cork.
To me, the length of time you leave the needle in seems both relevant and under-analyzed. Of course the trade-off is, if you want more than one glass over the course of an evening, which is better: leaving the needle in for an hour or more, or punching multiple holes in the cork? No idea.

While I have had excellent experiences with wine that were coravined months earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that the cork doesn't immediately reseal. Virtually every wine I've re-stored lying down has had some modest leakage of a drop or two. So I also assume there might also be some oxygen transfer.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#40 Post by w.fu »

very cool info, I rarely use my Corvine. I get nervous on more expensive bottles and cheaper bottles I just seem to drink in a day or two. Might be tempted to try using it on some nicer bottles soon.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#41 Post by HoosJustinG »

Mike Evans wrote: January 26th, 2021, 7:43 pm What kind of idiot purports to conduct a valid blind test when gathering the results in a show of hands by the participants?
It’s still a blind test — just one where the results *may* be influenced by seeing other responses in real time.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#42 Post by Philip G »

I use Coravin several times per week as my wife doesn't typically drink during the week and I would rather sample a glass or two than open one bottle over several nights. I will Coravin down to about 1/2 bottle after which I'll just open in. I've never found any issues on wines over a several month period. I have a couple of experiences with wines over about 2 years:

One was a '13 Insignia which I took about a glass from and it was way to young. Two years later it was drinking beautifully. I don't know if the Coravin helped it age quicker or whether this would have been identical without the Coravin.

The other was a '12 Achaval-Ferrer Finca Bella Vista. This one a little more than half the bottle was left and at the time of the Coravin it was very closed, my notes said to decant before opening. I forgot about it and two years later it was quite flat and lifeless without a decant.

As far as which model, I upgraded from the One to the Three recently because my original was coming apart (couldn't figure out if it was missing a screw or something). This is perfectly functional. The automatic model seems very expensive for me and I think is more geared towards professional use for pouring out exact amounts. Would be very cool to have but not really needed for me the way I use it.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#43 Post by gene keenan »

Paul Miller wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 7:04 am What do most of you feel is the general amount of time Corvain is good for? To stretch a bottle out over a week? Month? Longer?
in my experience: 2 weeks. I have noticed big declines in wine held longer.
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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#44 Post by Paul Miller »

I made the plunge. Bought the Model 5. We've been doing Dryuary, and also dieting. Next month, we're hoping to get to a point where we can each have a glass or two, and then Coravin the bottle. That way we don't blow our diet, and can have some wine without worrying about an open bottle sitting on a shelf going bad.

Thanks for the responses and tips.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#45 Post by Rich Brown »

Paul Miller wrote: January 29th, 2021, 2:12 pm I made the plunge. Bought the Model 5. We've been doing Dryuary, and also dieting. Next month, we're hoping to get to a point where we can each have a glass or two, and then Coravin the bottle. That way we don't blow our diet, and can have some wine without worrying about an open bottle sitting on a shelf going bad.

Thanks for the responses and tips.
Nice work Paul! If you follow the tips in this thread (purge the needle, avoid old corks, and pop the bottle when there's 1/4 left are my main ones), I'm confident you're going to love it.

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Re: Proof that coravin does not corrupt

#46 Post by JMReuter »

I tend to use Coravin on bottles that I store upright in the fridge for a week or two. I typically don't notice much change in the wine over this period of time (except those times when the cartridge runs out while I'm pouring a glass).

Last March, I Coravin'd a few ounces out of a 2008 Galardi. I wanted to compare two bottles of the same wine. They were very similar. I put some blue tap over the capsule (as a reminder that I'd used Coravin) and put it back in my wine fridge, on its side. A few days ago, I decided to pour another glass from that bottle. It tasted great and just like I remember it tasting in March. Not a very scientific assessment, obviously, but I was pleasantly surprised. I had expected the wine to be shot.
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