Does anyone else prefer Champagne to not be overly yeasty?

I’ve been getting really into Champagne over the last few months (wine in general, but especially Champagne/sparkling).

The other night I had a bottle of Charles Heidseick Brut NV, which is pretty highly regarded. The yeast/dough flavor was overwhelming to me and I didn’t enjoy the bottle much.

Generally, it seems like Champagnes are regarded more highly the yeastier they are. I personally prefer a nice balance of fruit and yeast/autolytic notes, rather than the wine smelling and tasting massively of yeast.

When I had a bottle of Louis Roederer Brut NV, that was 10/10 to me. Nice clean taste, good mouthfeel, with a subtle creamy/nuttiness.

So I’ve tried several different Brut NV Champagnes, most of which I liked. I would like to know what I should be looking for given my preferences, so that I lower the chances of spending money on a bottle I’m not that into. l liked just about all the other ones I had (even the $20 Costco one).

I’m also curious as to whether yeasty and autolytic are the same thing. Since I like some qualities deemed autolytic, but I’m not into an overwhelming pizza dough kind of taste.

Hey Lowell,

Give the grower champagne a try, in general they are more acid driven, fewer big bread notes, and lower residual sugar.

2 Likes

I’m pretty sure that most Champagne makers would consider it an insult to hear their wine described as “yeasty” thinking of it as an inference that they had not done their job very well. Descriptors such as toast, brioche, bread, biscuit, etc. can allude to varying levels of what it is to which you are referring and just with all aroma and flavor profiles with wine will be preferred by some and not so much by others. I enjoy Champagne when it’s present, even to a significant degree, but I don’t miss it when it is not there. Plenty of stylistic choices out there. Welcome to the board.

1 Like

There is a wide variety of styles available in NV champagne, some like Veuve Clicqout I find unpleasantly yeasty. I prefer the lighter brioche flavours of Laurent Perrier or Mumm.

1 Like

Hi Lowell,

I’m definitely someone who prefers more fruit and mineral driven champagne. While there will be growers/small houses like Egly-Ouriet who will go long on the lees contact (that’s where you are getting the yeasty notes), many need cash flow and won’t go as long.

To start, look towards the Cote de Blancs for chardonnay-based champagne to at least get started down that path. Someone like Gimmonet would be a great start! Please do put down some local selections that are available and hopefully the rest of us can help more

1 Like

I think the yeasty and related notes come from aging on the lees, so look for cuvees that haven’t been aged on the less that long. Most NVs will have less aging on the lees, so maybe focus on that. Also, if Louis Roederer Brut NV is a 10/10 for you, there’s nothing wrong with stocking up on that.

We have gotten into the complex subject of parsing the aromas of Champagne before (search for “Maillard reactions”), and I think this is another example of quite how complicated it is. The origin of those sorts of yeasty, toasty, empyreumatic aromas in Champagnes can have a variety of sources, including barrel maturation of the vins clairs, varietal characteristics, so-called “oxidative” evolution; and, above all, Maillard-like reactions between sugar in dosage and amino acids liberated during autolysis of the lees. Those Maillard-like reactions are catalyzed somehow, and there’s research into this subject going on right now, but I think it’s a safe assumption that some of the components of the liqueur d’expedition, beyond contributing flavors directly, also catalyze these reactions and knock them in different directions—hence how critical the “secret recipes” for the liqueur d’expedition are for some of the grandes marques.

All of which is to say that it would be a mistake to invariably correlate “yeasty” aromas in a wine with long lees contact. Of course, some wines that see long lees contact do taste “yeasty”, in the sense that you’re using the term; but I doubt, for example, that you would find Cristal Oenothèque from Roederer overtly yeasty, despite the fact that it sees a very long time on the lees.

6 Likes

On the flip side, Veuve Cliquot is known for being yeasty and it doesn’t spend very long on the lees to my knowledge.

I do want to point out that I don’t find these yeasty aromas to be automatically bad, I enjoy the cracker, cream, and but not so much dough, if that makes sense. I just like it to have enough fruit flavor to keep the wine refreshing to my tastes. Kind of like an Orange Julius type of thing.

The closest good wine store to me is Total Wines. I live in New York so there are a lot of good wine shops in the boroughs, but I live in the suburbs and the standard selection in my vicinity is very subpar (just Moet, Cliquot, and Dom).

I use Wine.com and for my birthday, I have an order of Laurent Perrier Brut NV, Ployez Jacquemart Brut NV, Nicolas Feuillatte Brut Rose, and Drappier Carte D’Or coming up.

I don’t think “yeast” is a negative considering how many people (including posts on here from what I’ve seen) explicitly describe it as something positive. But If I were to not use the term yeasty, I would describe Charles Heidseick as pastry (pleasant) with a strong dough aftertaste (less pleasant). While with a more neutral Champagne like Moet Brut Imperial, it’s more like a subtle cracker (which I like) which doesn’t override the apple/citrus but rather compliments it IMO.

Quite. It hasn’t been studied that much but apparently the concentrations of amino acid in the wine, which are the precursor for these Maillard-like reactions, has more to do with the yeast strains and fermentation kinetics of the primary fermentation of the base wine, rather than duration of maturation on the lees (beyond the couple of years necessary for meaningful autolysis). The studies that have been done were actually done chez Cliquot, as it happens.

Obviously, the less concentrated and intense the wine itself the more it will be dominated by the Maillard-derived aromas. This is clearly an issue with a lot of grandes marques’ Brut NVs, which are all yeast / toast and not much wine.

2 Likes

Is that similar to how still Pinot Noir is more likely to have cabbage/forest floor notes than Champagne? Not exactly the same thing, but also differences in fermentation of the base wine I’m guessing.

I had Dom Perignon in 2015 (which of course, spends a while on the lees) and I remember liking it and not thinking of it as tasting yeasty, but that was a while ago so I need to buy a bottle eventually and refresh my memory.

Like many secondary sorts of notes they are good and add interest if they are present in moderation. Too much and they become a distraction. Like pyrazine in Loire Cab Franc or even Bordeaux. Petrol in Riesling.

While the yeast characters are about technique versus grape I put them in the same category. I definitely like some of it in my Champagne. It’s something that is not offered from most other wines. If it overwhelms the remaining character of the wine, if that is worth noting, then it is a problem. If the overall wine isn’t all that awesome this note can at least give something to pay attention to. My favorite styles of Champagne usually offering some sort of yeasty, biscuit notes. The purer sorts of wines don’t always make up for it in fruit complexity. ‘Cleaner’ very often means plainer.

2 Likes

These Maillard-like reactions are similar to the reactions that make toasted bread taste toasty, coffee taste roasted, grilled steaks taste seared, etc

That’s distinct from any varietal signature.

To me, Dom Pérignon has quite a pronounced burnt toast aromatic signature these days, which I think is as much to do with reduction as Maillard reactions. They ferment in very big tanks, and the result is compacted lees, which I think must have something to do with the aromas.

But attempting to reverse-engineering this stuff is very complicated, and you won’t get any help from the producers…

2 Likes

You and me both, my friend.

And if the producers won’t help you on the reverse-engineering hypotheses, the rest of us needn’t apply :slight_smile:.

1 Like

I quite like toasty/roasted flavors, so that kind of thing sounds appealing.

Without knowing which burb you live in, thankfully you still have great options. Grapes The Wine Company is in White Plains and the WineConnection is in Pound Ridge. I’m relatively certain that a store like Crush will deliver to you and that is a place that you’ll want to familiarize yourself with though your wallet may not be so happy champagne.gif

1 Like

In NYC, check out Crush, Manhattan Wine Company, Flatiron, Verve, and SommCellars, all of which are in Manhattan but have knowledgeable people.

1 Like

Thanks very much for your insights William! It’s tremendous having you contribute your knowledge on WB!

Cheers,

Hal

1 Like

I’ve seen and read this being mentioned in passing/between the lines in certain Champagne texts and articles (for reasons that are not entirely opaque to me ) - but can you give an example of what could actually be an additive in the liqueur d’expedition? Are we talking, like, spices, or certain enzymes/cultures of something or another?

1 Like