Grenache Curious

Hi everyone,

My curiosity about Grenache has been peaked by a recent Wine School piece in the NYTimes by Eric Asimov and the discussion of Chateau Rayas in another thread I started (Recommendations for Greatness). I am not super experienced with this grape, but have had both lovely Grenache-based wines and some high extracted overblown stuff that was not my style at all. I have two specific questions regarding Grenache that I am wondering about:

  1. Being that I will likely never taste Rayas, are there other wines that approach it in style and profile? I know that its subtle style and 100% Grenache composition make it unusual for CdP, but are there any wines that bear similarities? I guess I’m asking if there is a poor man’s Rayas.

  2. I’m intrigued by the idea of Australia’s super old vine Grenache. Just seems interesting. I haven’t had any, but was curious what they are like. Do they tend towards overblown monstrosities like many modern day Aussie Shiraz, or are they different in style?

Would love to know more. Thanks!
Noah

Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern Rhône tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity. While some are successful in that style and some manage to make wines of true finesse, these places really aren’t places to be on the lookout if you don’t want your Grenache wines to be extracted and overblown.

On average, Spain tends to produce more successful and/or interesting takes on Grenache/Garnacha than France. Probably the greatest spots for fine, elegant Garnacha are Serra de Gredos (close to Madrid) and Terra Alta (in Catalonia). In both these regions they have very old Garnacha vines that grow in very high altitudes, helping the grapes retain good freshness and acidity, yet at the same time letting them get enough sun so the grapes enough warmth to ripen fully.

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From the US, I’d recommend Birichino and A Tribute to Grace. They aren’t necessarily Rayas-like but they are very much in the red-fruited, lighter colored camp, Birichino in particular.

To get something closer to Rayas at a lower price I’d go with the other wines from the same family. Maybe roughly in order of most Rayas-like to least:

Pignan
Ch. des Tours Vacqueyras
Fonsalette (sometimes more tannic, though)
Pialade
Ch. des Tours Cotes du Rhone
Domaine des Tours Vaucluse

The grapes stray away from Rayas’ 100% Grenache but there are a lot of similarities in the style across the line. There’s a certain amount of get-what-you-pay-for, though, and at least in the US all of these are expensive for their appellations. If you try one of the lesser ones and like it, it’s worth a splurge on Pignan or Fonsalette. I would try to start with the Tours CdR as it’s not that much more expensive than the Vaucluse and probably better bang for buck. You can give it a long decant.

Noah, I think there is a unique character to Grenache grown primarily in sandy soils (like Rayas). There are some wines grown in the sandy portion of the La Crau Lieu-dit of CdP that may show similar character to Rayas. Admittedly I’ve only had La Pialade which is a CdR that Rayas also produces (and has gone up way in price). When I think of this style of Grenache I think of fresh cherries, kirsch and sweet strawberry character with floral accents of rose and baking spice. You may also be able to find some of these elements in CdP with high portions of Cinsault as well.

Tercero does a very nice Grenache. Drunk a few with some age on them and even noted “baby rayas”.

Larry’s stuff is more structured and dark fruited than say the more widely available bright cherry / candy style which sometimes can be fun.

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Most of the time both Australian Grenache and Grenache from Southern RhĂ´ne tend to be quite big, ripe and heavy with high alcohol and low acidity

Clarendon Hills would be a good example that is not big, ripe and heavy from Australia. They do exist but need to search for them. I am sure there are several quality examples that don’t get exported.

+1 to old vine Spanish Garnacha. Producers to look out for include Bernabeleva, Comando G, Pegaso (Telmo Rodriguez) and Terroir al Limit. Some of the wines are already quite pricey, following some very high scores from Luis Gutierrez at WA.

I’d also recommend trying Halcon’s Esquisto (see Jay Miller’s thread here: TN: 2019 Halcon Vineyards Esquisto (USA, California, North Coast, Yorkville Highlands) - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers)

Chapelle St. Theodoric is 100% old vine Grenache grown in sandy soils not too far from Rayas. Couldn’t tell you if they’re “Rayas-like” but they’re definitely made in a style that favors elegance over power. Price is around $60.

A big yes for A Tribute to Grace. Lovely elegant lighter bodied style of Grenache

I agree that if you are interested in nuanced and delicate Grenache, try any of the wines from A Tribute to Grace. Her wines are a unique approach to Grenache that I hope more winemakers in CA will emulate.

I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto’s poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.

I would disagree about Clarendon Hills, which actually I would posit as Otto’s poster child for over-ripe, gloppy grenache, I bought a bunch of the 2001 Kangarilla Old Vines, and they were marvelous young. But they never aged well, not at all.

you are going to base this off one vintage which 2001 was the poster child for over the top Aussie wines.

Bucklin Ancient Vines.

It’s not Rayas, but it sure is delicious.

Noah - Welcome to the community.

At least one person has mentioned it before to you: this is a real names board. You must have your last name somewhere in your heading, or in your signature line. Not trying to be a goody-goody, but someone will report you to the mods eventually and wouldn’t it be nice to avoid that? :slight_smile: It will probably be easier to find people to offline with if they know your real name.

You could try Charvin’s various bottlings, which I think are nice examples of the grape, that are not OTT.

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My take on older Clarendon Hills wines is that were good young, didn’t keep. But maybe its different today.

Lots of good suggestions on Spain already (Commando G, Telmo Rodriguez). Bodega Maranones is also good (Peña Caballera).

In SA, Badenhorst has the Raaigras which I enjoyed (2016). I was expecting something bigger and was quite surprised that it showed finesse.

I don’t think we have A Tribute to Grace over here. I’ll be on the lookout following the recommendations though. I tried Birichino (Old Vines Besson vineyard) and was quite happy with the QPR (not trying to pick a fight… we have to be careful using that acronym now) even though the finish was quite abrupt (2017).

If you put your thread about greatness and wanting to spend $500+/bottle, why not start your journey with Rayas?
Then you’ll know…

Because Rayas is too expensive. Sourcing a well aged reliable bottle for $500 or less seems like an impossibility. Happy to take suggestions about where to buy.

Hi Noah,

Your assumption that many modern day Aussie Shiraz are over-blown monstrosities is simply incorrect. There are some wonderful, ethereal Shiraz based wines being made right throughout Australia. The days of chasing Parker scores with Oozemonsters has well and truly passed.

There are some lovely Grenache based wines from Australia. Try something from Ministry of Clouds, Cirillo, Turkey Flat, Bethany, Yalumba, Bekkers, Eperosa or Yangarra.

Cheers
Jeremy

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There is a lot of bad Grenache around. The grape is originally from Spain, but people associate it with France. However, until very recently, Spain had more acreage than the entire rest of the world. Most of it went to rosado and sangria. In France, a lot of it went to rosé and jug wine. Rayas is a fine example, but it’s become kind of a cult wine and it shouldn’t be. One of the problems is that the grape needs sun, but you have to watch it so it doesn’t over produce and over ripen.

In Spain, there are a few producers who are champions of the grape, and in Priorat especially there are some versions that people love, but Clos Erasmus, loved by many, is to me very sweet and ripe and I can’t remember the specific vintage but a few years ago one critic gave it 100 points and I found it almost undrinkable, and I like Grenache. So it’s always a matter of personal taste. A better example IMHO is Espectacle del Montsant, from Monstant, made by René Barbier. A cheaper one would be from Bodegas Borsao, coming from Campo de Borja, in Aragón. They are aiming to be the benchmark for the grape. The basic bottle usually has some earthy notes to balance out the bright fruit.

From the US, a shockingly good version is Joel Gott’s Alkai, which is almost a textbook example of a wine made from that grape and which you can find in supermarkets. Ridge does one but I’ve never particularly cared for it, and Qupe also does one that unfortunately I never found compelling. Beckmen, in Santa Ynez, used to do a very nice one but I haven’t had it in a few years.

From France, a relatively expensive version is Domaine Pierre Usseglio’s Cuvée Mon Aïeul, which is usually mostly, if not all Grenache. Another CdP that’s almost entirely Grenache is Domaine de Marcoux Vieilles Vignes, which is usually a nice version.

A really great value from Australia is from Yangarra, both their OV version and their more expensive High Sands bottling. They do a few others but I can’t remember the names. McLaren Vale is becoming known for Grenache in Australia, particularly the Blewitt Springs region. But don’t overlook Barossa, for Yaluma, d’Arenberg, and John Duval.

We did blind tastings yearly for a long time and at home we drank a lot of Grenache, so it’s hard to come up with a short list but these are a few off the top.

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