Would you buy expensive wine from here

Hi everyone- Would like your opinion on how much to spend on older bottles at my local shop. They have excellent current and near-current vintage stuff, which I buy all the time. But I’m curious what you think about back-vintage stuff. I’ll leave the shop nameless, for reasons that will become clear.

They have truly remarkable back vintage wines, especially Bordeaux and Burgundy, for good prices; plenty of First Growths, and top producer Cote d’Or Grand Cru including Rousseau, Liger-Belair, DRC, as well as a smattering of nice Chablis, Guigal Lala’s, Mosel wines that go back to the 70s, beautiful Napa Cabs, etc etc.

My concern is storage. The bottles are on racks, at room temperature, warm in the summer/cool in the winter, under fluorescent lights and sun from a big window. I peruse the shelves regularly, and occasionally old wines appear from their basement *, but most of these sit on the racks for years, maybe decades.

So would you buy these back vintage wines? Their prices are typically lower than most only retailers, the staff is so nice and knowledgeable; I’d love to support their business, but worry that their older stuff just won’t show well. They’ll take back a bottle that is totally cooked, I’m sure, but I’m more worried about spending a bunch on bottles that are simply in mediocre condition. Then again, how do these bottles compare to back vintages on Benchmark, or WineBid, or WineAccess?

I asked some staff once what they thought about storage, and basically got a “ehhh, I’m not that worried,” type response. Curious what you think, and what you’d do. Would you buy back vintages from them? If so, how old would you go? Would you put a spending cap on older bottles that come off their rack? Other thoughts? Any guidance appreciated.

*Side note: I recently bought a 1982 Drouhin Meursault from them for $10 the they found in the basement! That’s the type of place this is. I’m expecting vinegar, though fill and color look promising. I’ll post TN when I open it up. It’ll at least be an adventure!

I used to have a store like this. Unfortunately they are no longer in business and I really miss it… but they used to (not at all legally) have informal tastings in the back of the store. I was never a high roller, but folks would often go to the cold fridge (there was a large walk-in where the highest end and older bottles were kept) and pull a bottle to open there (implicitly to share). Obviously different from your scenario in a number of ways but if the bottle was off, the store manager would note it and you wouldn’t be charged. That was rare but your risk was mitigated. We had a few duds, mostly 90s burgs, very old Riesling, and occasionally champagne.

I too would be curious how buyers of high end wines would approach this scenario. Earlier today in the 82 bordeaux thread, you see many comments about the importance of provenance and good storage. From what you describe, I would approach a particularly high end bottle here quite cautiously.

Perhaps work your way up the chain a bit before you plunk down a lot of cash on a bottle. Tasting a few others at lower price points from this “storage” may turn you off or be encouraging.

warm old wine? I’d pass.

Nicks !

Normally I would run a mile, but some of my best bottles have come from this type of shop, so you could try a couple out of curiosity. Have a look at the bottles first, checking the levels, signs of seepage, raised corks, that sort of thing. If you get a bad one, you will find out if they are as nice as they sound! There are no guarantees with any bottle anyway, well-stored or not: having seen dozens of cases sitting in the sun awaiting collection outside two Bordeaux CCs’ cellars, I know that even EP is not risk-free.

Nope

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy interesting bottles and good values if I planned to drink them in the near term. If (when) you get a bottle that is cooked, you can find out for certain how they respond. I would be less inclined to purchase anything that I planned to hold for any length of time.

I have a place like this and it is a hit or miss with mostly misses. I noticed vintages that are <20 years are safer bet. I might be inclined to buy something if I cant find it easily elsewhere, it is something I really want and price is very good otherwise it is a easy pass.

I know what spending years on a retail shelf does to a young wine, let alone an old one. I wouldn’t buy any of those unless it was something I knew they had acquired recently from a good source.

I think you will have to buy a few bottles, and try them immediately, maybe even at the store with staff to calibrate their conditions - and if unsound - to see how the store will respond if they warranteed the provenance.

My feel is that enthusiasts are better off assuming they will wear all the risk in opening a bottle, and even if the retailer had perfect conditions, there is still plenty they were not in control of. Lots of natural variation in corks after 20 years foremost.

Good luck.

The old Sam’s in Chicago at North and Clyborn was like this — a small space with so much wine you could trip over bottles (and street people sprawled in front of the store). I remember once buying two bottles of the ‘71 Charles Viénot Clos de Bèze I picked up from the floor that were excellent. I think the best advice here is when dealing with a place like you describe only buy things that are wildly discounted.

Step 1: Sample a few that are priced reasonably but have been sitting there for a long time. Call it sampling the canaries. Proceed informed by this exercise.
Step 2: Ask if you can get a list of what is available in the basement (and has never been on the floor). Select from that set. Sample the “protected canaries”. Super bonus if you can get the same wine that you bought in Step 1 and compare them side-by side. Proceed informed by this exercise.
Step 3: Decide how much damage the storage represents and set your threshold/risk derating. Then buy (or grin as you walk by) the stock that catches your eye.\

If you can obtain (or have) one of the available wines from sound storage conditions, comparing that would be the best benchmark in Steps 1 and 2, but you might end up sinking a fair amount of money into an exercise that leaves you wondering if you are in the “no good old wines, only good old bottles” scenario.

Cheers,
fred

They have truly remarkable back vintage wines, especially Bordeaux and Burgundy, for good prices; plenty of First Growths, and top producer Cote d’Or Grand Cru including Rousseau, Liger-Belair, DRC, as well as a smattering of nice Chablis, Guigal Lala’s, Mosel wines that go back to the 70s, beautiful Napa Cabs, etc etc.

Haskell’s in Minneapolis has this type of storage. Bottles of old Riesling standing vertical with obvious signs of seepage.

Mount Carmel?

Not a chance.

If you want to prove it to yourself, buy a single ageworthy bottle from them and see how it held up. But I wouldn’t recommend buying anything too expensive or in volume.

IMO, wine that’s been on a wine shops’ floor for even one full season has reduced prospects for aging in your cellar. Too many times I’ve bought last year’s vintage on sale at a wine shop then been disappointed 5-7 years later. I still buy non-current vintages, but to drink in the near-term not to cellar.

I’ve bought some wines from them and had mixed experiences, most of the wines are at the lower end of the price spectrum and I expected such results. They deserve your support, not many old school merchant type shops left. I have asked and they have brought up some wines from the cellar. Pre-Covid I was dining at a local restaurant with my wife and the owner (of the store) was at the next table with 2 friends/clients and 4 bottles of Roumier, a quick acknowledgement and chat and I had a flight…super generous.

You just need to understand that the aging process would be accelerated. Buy the 90s Bordeaux but avoid the 80s. That sort of thing.

If this is the store I think it is, which is not in New Haven but not too far away, I visited once because I happened to be in the area three years ago and bought a beautiful bottle of 1978 Haut Bailly. Brought up from the cellar IIRC. Cellared since release. Owner, who I spoke to, seemed like salt of the earth.

I subsequently talked to a friend who has a house on CT and he said he’s had mixed results, great bottles to ones that probably should have been stored better.

I agree with all those that said these are some really great guys and that their business is worth supporting. I’ve gotten to know a few of them over the years and they are all kind, helpful, and very generous. Last holiday season they gave a free bottle of Cremant de Bourgogne Rose for free; they said “you’ve been a good customer this past year, happy holidays!”. They also gave me a complimentary wine delivery right to my door when I had COVID.

So yes, the people at this store are great, and I buy a lot of wine from them. I use them pretty much exclusively for my daily drinkers, and also buy more expensive special stuff from them, but have avoided anything more than 10 years old. My main question was about old and expensive bottles sitting on the shelf for years at a time. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I’ll probably pick up a couple of older wines and let you know how they are.

we have a place like this near us. not nearly that quality, but it was my only source for early 2000s/late 90s wines locally for a while. as I’ve started branching out and buying aged wine from places that have provenance guarantees I am realizing those wines all showed much older than they should have.

at the same time- I would echo everyones advice. a place like this could be a real gem if they really do have storage theyre not worried about and stand behind. would grab a couple of the more reasonably priced aged bottles and open them soon before investing in any big hitters from here.

I would also suggest posting the name of the shop. not a bad chance someone from the board has been in there.