Retailer check: EmpireWine.com

Update: I decided to apologize to the store for my tone and the way I handled the situation. However, I left this thread here because I still don’t agree with their customer service. You can still decide how you feel about this store.

I’m rarely one to bad mouth retailers as I’ve owned a retail store before. I also try to be a good customer when mishaps happen. But a combination of ineptitude and despicable customer service has pushed me over the edge.

Chang told me about some 14 DRC RSV available at Empire Wine a couple of weeks ago. There were 6 bottles available on the website at a great price. I ordered 3 immediately. Naturally I was concerned that they had a poor inventory system and maybe the 6 bottles were phantom, so after my order I then went back to the page to check and there were 3 bottles remaining. Good news, their inventory updates in real-time. Later that afternoon I was talking with another friend and went back to the page get the link to send my friend and there were still 3 bottles remaining. My friend texts me the next morning that they are sold out, so I checked and sure enough the 3 bottles were gone. Oh well, you snooze you lose.

Fast forward to 10 days later I get a message from the store.

Andrew,
Unfortunately multiple orders came in at the same time overselling us on this product. We can offer you 1 bottle if still interested. Please let us know at your earliest convenience.

-Mike

Naturally the news doesn’t make me happy, but with no apology or any explanation, I’m very confused and rather perturbed. So I reach back out for further explanation.

Mike, that’s unacceptable. Your inventory on the site updates in real time. There were 6 bottles available and after I checked out there were still 3 bottles available. In fact, later that afternoon I sent a message to my friend letting him know about the bottles and there were still 3 bottles available. I’m sorry if you have to disappoint some other customers that ordered later, but I want the 3 bottles I ordered.



Andrew,
Our inventory does not update as orders are placed through the website. 1 bottle is all we will be able to offer unfortunately.

-Mike



Mike, that doesn’t make any sense. As I said, there were 6 bottles and right after my order I went back to the page to send the link to my friend and it showed 3 bottles. Where did the 3 bottles go if the inventory doesn’t update in real time? And then the 3 bottles were gone when my friend checked the link the next morning, so if you updated inventory manually the next day, how come it’s 10 days later you let me know you can’t fulfill the order? This is super shady at worst and a terrible way to do business at best.



Andrew,
Sorry you feel that way, if not interested in the bottle we can offer you we can of course cancel the order if you wish. Please let us know either way.

-Mike



Mike, no I don’t want to cancel the order. I want the 3 bottles I ordered. Not one of your responses has addressed any of my very valid questions. Like I said, this is either terrible customer service and a terrible way of doing business or super shady, which is seeming more and more likely with each response that you avoid my specific questions.



Andrew,
As stated 3 bottles are not available. This is one of the most sought after wines and the amount allocated out to stores is beyond scarce. Being online too many orders came in at once and it took us time to sort through to see what we can offer. Since I cannot get you 3 bottles we will cancel the order as it cannot be filled.

Regards,
Mike

So now, not only did I receive no apology, no explanation, they canceled the order that I told them specifically I didn’t want to cancel.

I didn’t want to be one of those people that give a one-sided report of an interaction and leave out key details, so I posted every communication word for word, so you can make your own judgements about whether to do business with this establishment.

I have had no problem with this retailer, and personally feel that it was trying its honest best.

Well, if Victor thinks it’s acceptable customer service…

I’m not that sympathetic. We’ve all experienced this. Unless the retailer has a record of offering things it doesn’t have (which a few do), I give them a pass. Retail inventory systems are never perfect. Sometimes that works in your favor when they stumble on a gem that isn’t listed; sometimes you lose when bottles exist only on the system.

Their responses were courteous, but it sounds like you want them to fall all over themselves and beg for forgiveness and/or deliver something they don’t have.

FYI, I don’t think you’ve got any legal claim here. As I (dimly) recall from first year contracts, a retailer’s “offer” is just an invitation to an offer under the law. The customer’s order is the offer (to buy) in legal terms. There’s no contract until the retailer accepts the order/offer.

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That’s not at all what happened this time. Arguing with someone who might sell you highly allocated wine at a “great price” is probably not the most useful approach. It seems to me that the “unacceptable” behavior was not on the retailer’s end of this exchange.

I used to know someone who seemed to want to find some kind of problem with restaurant experiences. The food, service, music volume, whatever. These issues were frequently not raised politely. In the midst of telling a server and/or manager about whatever problem she had found, she would usually mention that she had worked in restaurants. I don’t think that ever made her seem more reasonable. Probably the opposite.

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I’m sorry but I don’t buy the excuses of inventory. Just like Andrew said he saw the inventory change on the site. Anyone who has an e-comm site has real time inventory systems unless it’s Ol Pappy with his ledger but I doubt you’re buying RSV DRC from him.

What happened was Andrew and probably others bought a few bottles, people heard about it (their existing customers or new) and emailed them asking if there was a chance to get more. They decided they would try to break up the multiple bottle orders from 2-3 people in an effort to offer single bottles to 6-8 people.

If I were Andrew and they said “hey man sorry our site didn’t put the 1 bottle limit on the item so we’d really like to fill some orders for other people, could we sell you 1 and offer you ______ or ______ at this great price?” I don’t think I’d have an issue.

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At best a sloppy operation. Edit after posting: I am referring to Empire State of Wine (esow.com)
3/27/21-Received confirmation email for order of a few bottles of Burgundy (VR) I really wanted to get my hands on.
4/29/21-I emailed them asking if this order was shipped or not.
5/14/21-Received this message:
Unfortunately, the items that you ordered are now out-of-stock. Although we try our best to maintain 100% accuracy with inventory, there are rare occasions where we experience an inventory error.

Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience.

We did not processed your Credit Card.

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Yeah but when you know you are being lied to…

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Yeah, I’ll recommend them to anyone who wants to an order something they never really wanted that much anyway. Otherwise, go elsewhere.

When does it become a contract? When credit card is charged?

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I understand Andrew’s frustration here. And then they end the exchanges by simply taking away the order altogether? The emailed answers from the retailer were lazy at best. That’s garbage and I won’t do business with this retailer.

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I’ve had this happen with other retailers more times than I can count. It’s only wine. Move on. You’re acting entitled.

Edit: I didn’t mean to appear snarky. It’s a luxury beverage, an expensive one at that, not life saving medication.

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I think it would be helpful if Andrew specified which Empire Wine shop he’s talking about. There was a thread in the past with similar names both in NY and some people confused the shops. Would suck for the shop not involved in this matter get hit by stray bullet.

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Cut them some slack. Like you’ve never bounced a check for insufficient funds or said something to someone you thought was true only to find out it wasn’t. Mistakes happen, and I doubt their system is ‘real time’: most retailers are still not (K&L seems to be a glowing exception to this).
You still get your measly bottle at the end, a bottle I’ll never see.

I edited my post to clarify I was commenting on Empire State of Wine, esow.com. Thanks

I think the award has passed on to you. neener

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I have bought from EmpireWine.com many (20+) times. Generally, they are pretty quick to ship and accurate. I have noticed during COVID they seem to be swamped and a little slower.

On occasion I’ve had what you described happen, although I haven’t bought something like DRC from them. The one that sticks out to me was 2016 Chiara Boschis Via Nuova, which had just gotten 100 pts from AG. I ordered 4 and they ended up only having 3. It was about $90 and I figured I was lucky to get any at that price, so I didn’t sweat it. I can see how you’re disappointed, but I think unfortunately many wine websites aren’t run with the kind of precision many of us would like.

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Different Andrew.

We berserkers sit at the end of a long chain of supplier relationships e.g. landowner, domain, importer, distributor, retailer, berserker. For wines that are in high demand, allocation decisions must be made at every stage, year in and year out, and the suppliers hold the cards. If you want to favorable outcomes, regardless of where you sit, then treat your suppliers well. Relationships matter.

Also remember that stores sell wine in many different ways - online orders, email, phone, in person, even text. Not all of those avenues can be reflected immediately in an online system. I’m sure with highly allocated wines it’s common to have to adjust some people’s requests.

It’s happened to me many times. It’s disappointing, but I remind myself that the wine wasn’t actually mine yet. So I haven’t lost anything.

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