1er Crus of Grand Cru Quality

This topic must have been covered many times on this site, yet I couldn’t find quite what I’m looking for. I am wondering which you all think are the very best 1er crus in Burgundy, the ones that might be considered Grand Cru in quality. With the price of most Grand Cru Burgundy in the stratosphere, I was hoping to get a taste of these wines at a “bargain” (emphasis on the quotes). I’m interested in both red and white. These are the ones that I think of, love to hear what you think. And please feel free add why you made your choices, shout out specific producers, and vintages.

Admittedly, I haven’t had most of these, I gathered this list mostly from reading.

Red:
Vosne- Cros Parantoux, Malconsorts, Les Beaux Monts, Les Suchots
Gevrey- Clos St Jacques, Les Cazatiers, Combottes
Chambolle- Les Amoureuses, Charmes,
Nuit St George- Les St George
Volnay- Cailleret, Clos de Chenes
Pommards- Grand and Petit Epenots, Les Rugiens

White
Chablis- Montee de Tonnerre, Montmains, Vaillons
Meursault- Perrieres, Charmes
Puligny- Le Cailleret, Les Combettes
Chassagne- Cailleret, Les Chaumes

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That’s a good list, and many of these (e.g. Cros P) are multiples of the cost of many Grand Crus nearby, so not exactly “value.”

I’d add St Aubin Chez Derrière Chez Edouard for white CdBeaune, and Montee de Tonnerre in Chablis

There are more grand crus that should be premier crus, than the other way round.

Speaking to the reds, all you have selected are excellent, though I wouldn’t include Cazetiers, Combottes, Chambolle Charmes, or Epenots.

If I had to pick three, they’d be Clos St Jacques, Amoureuses, and Caillerets. Of course several from Vosne are in the conversation, but they have enough grand crus already.

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Clos St. Jacques, Amoureuses and Meursault Perrieres are the ones I’d choose. I think after that it becomes much of a toss up.

random, but anyone else think Genevrieres is better than Perrieres?

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If there is another Meursault Cru deserving of GC status apart from Perrieres, it’s likely Genevrieres not Charmes

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They are both excellent, but different. I still think MP has the edge.

Agree - I’m neither a rockhead nor a fan of ripping acidity so it sometimes is more agreeable to me

Always an interesting exercise. I don’t think Cazatiers, Combottes, Charmes, Epenots are grand crus. in volnay, I’d sub Clos des Ducs for Caillerets. In Chablis, Montmains and vaillons are not grand crus.

It would be interesting to also make a list of which grand crus should be demoted.

I don’t think the problem is the vineyard, it’s the producers. The GCs that typically make such a list are the large ones with lots of sub-par producers making sub-par wines.

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I think that list is too big.

Obviously grand cru quality:

CSJ
Amoureuses
MP

Close to grand cru quality:

Combe de Orveau
Fuees
Suchots
Malenscorts
Reignots
Ducs

It’s not just sub-par producers in the large GCs, there are also better and less good parts of the vineyard.

1er of grand cru quality:

  • Chambolle - Amoureuses (is already grand cru price)
  • Vosne - Cros Parantoux (already grand cru price)

Gevrey Clos St Jacques maybe as well.

Fine to leave all the others as is.

Pleased you posted this question. Yes, I find Genevrieres more compelling often.

Agree with you on Montmains and Vaillons.

Funny, i read the thread title and thought this exact thought.

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The obvious names are the obvious names.

If I had to choose one it would be Les Saint Georges. It’s great across a number of producers and it singularly typifies NSG kinda like Musigny typifies Chambolle or Beze typifies Gevrey.

More interesting to me are the candidates that aren’t obvious names. I would choose the following vineyards over some GCs:

Chambolle Combe d’Orveau
Gevrey Estournelles St. Jacques and Cazetiers
Pommard Rugiens
Chassagne Dent de Chien and En Remilly

yup

Malconsorts

only in the best of hands

Les Beaux Monts

seldom, even in the best of hands

Les Suchots

nobody’s but Arnoux

Gevrey- Clos St Jacques

often, but still overrated

Les Cazatiers

never

Combottes

nope, but Dujac comes closest

Chambolle- Les Amoureuses

yes, depending on the type of GC you’re looking for. Its reputation is based more on exceptional elegance than depth.

Charmes

nope. Fuees, Borniques, and Combe d’Orveaux all have stronger claims, but they’re not quite there either.

Nuit St George- Les St George

yup. At this point someone usually remarks that if LSG counts, why not Cailles and Vaucrains. The answer is that LSG is the best.

Volnay- Cailleret,

maybe sometimes

Clos de Chenes

only Lafarge. Taillepieds is the better Volnay candidate.

Pommards- Grand and Petit Epenots

no, but Clos des Epeneaux has done it

Les Rugiens

more like it

Chablis- Montee de Tonnerre, Montmains, Vaillons

nope, nope, nope, and many actual Chablis GC are also a nope

Meursault- Perrieres

maybe, but the distance between this and the second-best Meursault ain’t nearly as big as the distance between Montrachet and any Chassagne or Puligny 1er

Charmes

nope

Puligny- Le Cailleret

the CSJ of Puligny?

Les Combettes

definitely nope

Chassagne- Cailleret

nope

Les Chaumes

never heard it named in this context, but dunno if I’ve ever had one.

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Idk liger belair makes a pretty good suchots.

Montée de Tonnerre is probably the only one for mine. Consistently Grand Cru quality in the right hands.