On Palate Fatigue and Aging - An Anecdote

I know we have this discussion on the aging palate from time to time, but I have an anecdote to share. I posted part of this in the daily wine thread, and then figured a bigger discussion could be more interesting.

The backdrop: My Dad introduced me to wine. He and my mother always had wine at the dinner table, and as my sister and I got into our teens, we had a little bit on some evenings. Alcohol was never a taboo in our house. As I moved on to law school, and started showing some interest in wine myself, my Dad started introducing me to the good stuff. At that point, he was big into classic California Cabs and had moved into French wines, CDP and Bordeaux in particular. This is the mid-90s, and at that point, we really started buying and drinking together quite a bit. My parents rented a home in St Remy de Provence, France in 1996, with his brother and sister in law - also big wine aficionados - and of course my wife and I had to join the party. They were there for a few months, we stayed for 10 days, and honestly one of the most culturally-enriching experiences of my life. Every day was family breakfast, a day trip with a great lunch usually at some quaint town, then we would come home to cook a family dinner with the local produce, and popped many bottles of wines we picked up around the travels. Lots to find in Southern Rhone, as you all know. My Dad had a great palate then.

In the 2000s he became more and more “Parkerized”. His palate definitely preferred the larger scaled wines. He adored 2007 Chateauneuf du Pape. I basically ended up giving him all of my 2007 CDPs and modernized Bordeaux. He loved them all. And big Zins.

Now it seems the pendulum is swinging back. I have noticed these last few years that he prefers more nuanced wines, less tannins and big fruit, less oak. Last night for dinner he really surprised me. He loved the 2016 Thivin that I popped first, and he historically has not liked Beaujolais at all. And then after decanting for an hour, he really loved the 1998 Chateau Bel Air Marquis d’Aligre, Margaux, that I popped. And that is not even a sure-thing for normal Bordeaux lovers. He seemed happy as a clam and wanted to know about the varietal composition, the vintages, etc. I had a back-up bottle just in case, but it was never necessary.

So just this one anecdote, but it has been an interesting ride watching my Dad’s palate evolve over time. And the cool parts is, he is 83 but very healthy. Both he and my mom are healthy and enjoying the good life, which includes lots of fine wine.

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It’s a great story and worth discussion for sure. My dad has been pretty stable on his palate across almost 20 years, but he drinks very little wine. Dad loves Pommard. Each and every time :slight_smile: At the same time, he is never afraid to try anything, and never afraid to state he doesn’t like it, even if I do. Dad will be 85 in August and still has a significant zest for life, good food and good wine, so you and I share that in common!

For myself, I’d conservatively estimate that I’m past 23,000 wines tasted in my “career”. I don’t think palate fatigue has set in for me in any way, but my tastes have and do change—I used to loathe Riesling, now it comprises a significant portion of the cellar. I used to like Aussie Shiraz quite a bit, now I only have a few.

Hope others jump on to share their views, thanks for starting this thread.

Mike

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have been drinking wine for > 60 yrs, my palate has definitely evolved over the years, am less “Parkerized” and not as big a fan of big reds as I used to be, drinking more Riesling and Rose these days . Gave up Oz Shiraz a number of years ago

Very interesting observations. A jilted winemaking consultant in Bordeaux recently warned me that I risked marginalizing myself by not giving him good reviews, but this thread encourages me in my complacency.

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I’m just encouraged to know that I’ve got a shot at still enjoying any wine at all when I’m 85+. Something to aspire to!

It occurred to me recently, as a result of reducing the size of my cellar prior to a relocation, that some portion of my change in preference to more elegant and less extracted wines with more structure is due to the increase in the average bottle age of my holdings. I still enjoy large-scale, robust, and highly extracted wines but I haven’t been buying as much and since they don’t necessarily get better over time and often become less enjoyable more quickly, they show less well over time. It’s inevitable that wines that improve with 5-10+ years give a better showing in more recent consumption. In other words, if I had a nearly empty cellar and didn’t have a whole bunch of older wines to drink I think I’d be enjoying young, robust and highly extracted reds a whole lot more. That’s partially responsible for a change in preference but certainly doesn’t accoun for all of it.

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It’s been interesting watching my parents tastes in wine shift as they age. The most noticeable thing I have noticed is that they both want a bit little bit of R/S (like in the 2-4g/l range) in their wines and no longer tolerate bone dry wines as much. And both of them have shifted a lot to Champagne, Prosecco, and Cali Bubbly.

At least I know know that sometime in my 50s and 60s I need to start buying at lot of Champagne to carry me over in to retirement.

I suspect that we should probably be more cognizant of palate changes as we age – and not just for age 75+. Here’s a blurb from Cleveland Clinic website:
“…As we age, the number of taste buds that we have decreases. This usually begins to occur in our 40s if we’re female or in our 50s if we’re male. At the same time, our remaining taste buds also begin to shrink, or atrophy, and do not function as well. This results in decreased sensitivity to taste, typically affecting salty or sweet, and eventually sour or bitter foods. Around the same time, our sense of smell may also start to decrease, which can contribute to the loss of taste.”

How do these effects impact our enjoyment of different wines? One might surmise that as sensitivity declines, 1) wines with more sugar can become more attractive, 2) bitter tannins would not be as much of a turnoff in big, young wines, 3) sense of “balance” gets redefined, 4) etc.

To complement the anecdotes, it’d be great to hear from some science-types. [cheers.gif]

Most perception of complexity and nuance in wine is olfactory rather than via taste buds. A decline in taste buds may or may not parallel what happens to our olfactory sense. But if it’s like everything else, it doesn’t get better with age.

Not all of it is palate fatigue or change. A fair portion of it is dietary changes. it’s far less common for us to sit down to a steak, or roast, or some other rich and hearty meal than it used to be. Fish and a salad just doesn’t so much go with a Bordeaux blend.

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Big LOL.

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Prejudice against Bordeaux Blanc is real, make no mistake.

Fantastic post Robert, thank you for your reflections. Aging certainly isn’t a one way street. I’ve always doubted the idea that your palate dulls as you get older. Even if it did I think life experience might play a role in taste preferences. Been there, done that is powerful. Cheers.

We’ve seen your palate, it can only get better!

[snort.gif] [snort.gif]



I kid, I kid.

Agreed, and maybe even meds or other ailments. I probably should not have called it “fatigue” as here it was really more, what I thought, about an aging palate.

And then we have Covid.

I’m still not sure that my palate has fully recovered. It totally went awry from Covid, among other things. It ultimately came back, but I’m not convinced that my palate and olfactory sense is back to 100%.

I was also thinking, my wife has had me eating vitamin gummies - no Todd, not real “gummies” - for overall health. She’s a health nut. One of them is 100% zinc. I recall reading that zinc is a palate killer, as in those zinc cold lozenges. Would zinc gummies have a similar effect?

That’s a weird way to try and get you to cut back on your wine spending. I’m guessing your appreciation for merde is intact. Wean yourself off the zinc, but not the wife. This keeps the good stuff for yourself.

Quit the zinc. There’s no chance that it’s going to help you with anything, and a substantial chance it will screw up your palate. In fact, there’s little chance that any of the vitamins will do you any good, unless you have pernicious anemia (vitamin B-12), or if you haven’t stepped foot outside for a year (vitamin D).

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I am 83 years old. I started drinking in my late teens, early twenties…Straw covered Italian wine bottles, small clay bottles of God know what. Bought my first case of California Ingelnook cask for $38, in 1968… Drank cabs for many years, then pinot. Bordeaux Some German, Austrian…For the last twenty years Burgundy red and white. I am drinking fewer bottles but better bottles. This seems to be the same progression as most of my wine friends my age. From heavier to lighter wine. Less but better.

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To my understanding, they don’t go the same way. Olfactory sense is something one can keep alive by constantly using it consciously, because it trains the neural connections there. Conversely, if one doesn’t use their sense of smell consciously and often, it can sort of wilt away even at quite young age as neurons become passive if they are not constantly used. However, as long as they are there, one can always start training their nose by smelling stuff constantly and consciously.

Some olfactory deterioration usually starts to happen at the age of 60 as aging neurons don’t get replaced by new ones and, to my understanding, men are more affected than women. However, the progress of this can be slowed down and even halted by the constant use of the olfactory sense, and wine tasting - if anything - is the perfect means for this. In our tasting group is an elderly couple in their 80’s, and they still are keen tasters, both having an acute sense of smell and still retaining a preference for leaner, old-school wines over modernized fruit bombs. It’s obvious age has done very little for their olfactory sense - and I’d ascribe this fact to constant wine tasting than to plain luck.

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Damn!

Pops is now digging my “Outhouse of Loire” wines!

Enjoying a Baudry Chinon Les Grezeaux!

There is hope for the old man!