New here, been studying about visionary and cult winemaker Abe Schoener.

Love his concepts, will be meeting Abe on May 5th, and looking forward to tasting some of the most innovative thought provoking wines ever made. Any thoughts on “The Scholium Project” and Abe’s visionary wine?

Welcome to the board

Have you tasted any Scholium Project wines yet? You’re already using “visionary”, “thought provoking”, and “innovative.” I would use “polarizing” before those three adjectives.

This might belong in Wine Talk.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve haven’t liked the ones I’ve tried.

That is Schoener I believe.

Eric-Sorry about the typo-(embarrassed!)

Peter-No, have not tasted but read many tasting notes so I do not expect a traditional flavor profile. I will not get to try them until the meeting.

Polarizing, I suppose so. I can certainly see your point. The reason I view Abe as a visionary is very straightforward. The vision PRECEDED the wine, and the wine making. Thought provoking and innovative is a given.

As to your rule #1, I do not believe in oversimplified labels like “good wine” or “bad wine.” Such monikers, in my opinion, are an attempt to avoid understanding the necessity for widely divergent styles. Even oxidized wine, the closest thing to a “bad wine” that exists, has as you well know been used literally for centuries in many styles of wine.

Linda-Great Pic!

David- Open minded response, Abe would appreciate your candor I am sure.

Welcome, Bill, hope you enjoy WB! People here are very tolerant of the fact that some like one style much more than another (Bordeaux vs Burgundy is maybe the most familiar example). One of the reasons that I like this board.

I do think Abe is a thought provoking winemaker, trying to go where no man as gone before. I have to say I’ve enjoy the few whites I have tried but have a tough time with the reds, mostly because I find them hot and disjointed. My sample is not very large, so take my comments for what they’re worth. Most recently, Glenn Levine brought a Chardonnay to a dinner which I really enjoyed. Can’t remember what the wine is called.

*disclaimer-I have the Naucratis on the wine list @ Bistro LQ.

From whence the confusion arises. In my opinion, many of the places Abe “goes” are mistakes from the history of viticulture. Repeating them on purpose doesn’t seem that innovative.

I have tasted dozens of Scholium wines and I’m left scratching my head.

Regarding my signature “rules”: we call that sarcastic humor.

Welcome to the forum, Bill.

I’ve only tried a couple of his whites and found one unremarkable and one flawed and undrinkable. But it sounds like you have high hopes… good luck.

As for visionary, I don’t know the guy’s story, but I guess one could consider many winemakers to be visionaries.

(Note, I’m not the winemaker or farmer, so I wouldn’t include myself in the visionary statement above. I’m just in it for the money. )

My experience with Scholium is limited. I arrived at the point where I feel like drinking Scholium wines is a lot like listening to Jandek. The story and circumstances are much more interesting and satisfying than the final outcome.

Wow, a Jandek reference on a wine board. Is he still around?

I’ve had bunches of Scholium wines and have liked most of them, loved a couple of them and found one or two just a little too odd for enjoyment. Even so, I appreciate the path that Abe is taking and will continue to buy a few every year. He’s also a really nice guy (met him at a friend’s wedding a few years ago) and he does have a really interesting backstory.

Scholium is hard to pin down for sure. I was (am) a member of the original “53” buyers. While I have found almost all of his wines to be interesting - some very interesting - and tasting them was fun, I haven’t liked drinking a fair share of them. And while a few were outstanding, it was tough to pay these prices on a roll of the dice.

I buy an bottle or two each year, and am hoping that some of my stock will become more drinkable with some age. I’ll have to crack one of the 04’s I have and report back.

Randy-Nice website! You have a beautiful place, and I would love to know more. Are you available in the trade in NY? Who distributes Match here? I will shoot you an email from your contact info on your website.

Just an interesting side note Bill- I’d always wanted to try these and since I’ve moved from Texas to Louisiana for law school I’ve tasted a few. The interesting thing is that they are readily available at retail here. There are massive retailers in Texas that never carried them yet I can even get them at the Whole Foods down the street here. I’m talking multiple wines too, red and white. Odd.

I’m confused… are we now talking about my wines or the Scholium still? David, I can guarantee that you have never seen a white wine of mine since they don’t exist. Our Cab has limited availability retail in Texas, none in LA.

Bill, I’ll shoot you an email tomorrow AM.

There was a red at Berserkerfest II recently (help out there form anyone attending?). It has been the only one I’ve tried, and I found it a bit oxidized, but I have heard that is his style. Not a fan of oxidized here.

I think there were two. I brought the '05 Babylon (Petite Syrah). Didn’t think it was oxidized–at least not when I tasted it (but it was also way over extracted and so tannic that it would need another 10 years to come around, IMHO).

Can’t remember what the other one was. Mine was on the same barrel as the Lillian my brother brought, if that helps.

I am one of the original 53 (actually, I think I am #54 but that’s another story). I like Abe’s wines because they are different. If I want to drink the same thing every night, I can just buy one grape from one vineyard and be happy with it. I have had a few Scholium duds, but overall I would say Abe wins 95%+ of the time, which is a lot better than the odds with premoxed white burgs an approaching the risk of corked wine. If you don’t want interesting wine experiences, don’t buy his wine. But if you want an incredible dry botrytis wine, drink the Cena and enjoy yourself. AND his verdelho-based wines are also very good. They are extremely fresh and drink best young. I have saved a few to see how they age and I think they were better right after they arrived.

As in, “She has a great personality…”?