Serge,
I’ll bite. Producer, producer, producer only really applies when you are talking about a producer that has a quality track across the board. For many Burgundy heads Prieur is not considered top echelon. Barthod, DRC, Roumier, d’Angerville, Lafarge, Dujac, Ramonet, Pernot, Pavelot, Dauvissat, de Moor, de Montille come to the top of my head as producers I would buy if I did not know vintage or appellation. Prieur would not be on that list. I;m sure many other burg people would agree.
Prieur, to my tastes, has improved markedly over the last several years, and the wines have become much more elegant, less forced. But it may be that Serge was looking for the old style that Prieur used to make. Serge – what was the wine and provide some examples of wines from Prieur that you have liked in the past.
Looks like some other people on CT have had the same wine recently and liked it. Maybe you just had an off bottle. Shit does happen. Is it a bottle you purchased recently?
I get your drift, but the wine also sat around for many years under conditions that you cannot verify. It could have sat at a constant 85 degrees and the cork would still look good, the capsule would spin, etc. Or, as I said before, the bottle could have been off for another reason. Or at a different stage of development than the Santenots. Or maybe you just like Volnay-Santenots much better than Beaune-Grèves (there is a fair amount of difference). I can’t see your experience with a single bottle as verifying that Burgundy is riskier than any other region/type of wine.
[quote=“Serge Birbrair”
Claude, in my original post I didn’t call Burgundy any riskier than Argenitina, for example.[/quote]I think that by referencing Gary (York) and Alex R. in the title, you were endorsing their Burgundy-is-a-crapshoot views.
I just had two bottles of 07 caymus blind and side by side, one was horrible the other one was good. how is that not an example of an off bottle?
Serge – I’m all for more people endorsing their views, even though I don’t share them.
Except that Voltaire’s position can be viewed as being altruistic (there’s also a self-interest argument, though), while my position is entirely self-interested.
I know Prieur’s Musigny far outclasses his Chambertin… perhaps Greves is a vineyard in which he doesn’t excel? I’m not familiar with this wine in particular.
Rousseau owns decent parcels of Ruchottes Chambertin, Clos de la Roche and Charmes Chambertin, but those wines never, ever live up to pedigree; even as his Gevrey Clos St. Jacques overachieves every year. It doesn’t mean that knowing the producer and his strengths is not an important starting point.
In better vintages, I like to start checking on his Musigny at 9-10 years with 2 hours in a decanter. They will generally hit peak at 10-12 years. In softer vintages I start closer to 5-7 and forgo the decanter entirely.
Now that I’m at home and checking my reviews, I see that both from barrel and bottle, I rated the Volnay-Santenots superior to the Beaune-Grèves. Indeed, six months after I first tasted the Grèves from bottle, it showed significantly less well, causing me to caution readers about the wine.
I’ve had disappointing experiences with the '89 d’Angerville Taillepieds and the '88 d’Angerville Clos des Ducs, Serge, but all the bottles I’ve had of the '90 d’Angerville Champans (both magnum and regular formats) were excellent. I also love de Montille’s Volnays, but have a soft spot for d’Angerville’s Champans.
Dujac is, hands-down, my favorite for Morey St-Denis. It’s always what I have when having my favorite dish of roast pigeon at Ma Cuisine in Beaune. The only semi-disappointing bottle I’ve had from this producer was their '96 Échézeaux (dinner at Jardin des Remparts, Beaune, July 2006) - a bit too hard and stern at the time, but, then that was almost 4 years ago. I should check out how it’s coming along…
Serge,
“Once swallow does not make the summer”.
If you took me to task for expressing a commonly-held opnion as a fact, I hereby take you to task for falsely grasping at a statisticially insignificant sample in an attempt to prove a point.
It will not wash.
Having got over this hurdle, I confirm that I visited Domaine Jacques Prieur in Meursault in January and enjoyed many fine wines.
They have some of the most extensive grand cru vineyards in the Côte d’Or.
The owners also have an estate in Bordeaux, Château Rouget in Pomerol.
Best regards,
Alex R.
Personally, I think vintage is at least as important as producer. But then '99 was a good one! Just out of curiosity - how did you “serve” the wine? I.e. decanted, slow-O-ed? Serving temp? Otoh, I never expect that much from a Beaune, although Drouhin’s Clos des Mouches (with some age) can be very nice indeed. That wine has some Pinot Gris in it too - a historical thing, I think.
[/quote]
Dujac is one of my all-around favorite Burgundy producers, but coincidentally, the one poor showing I have ever had was a '96 (I think it was the Échézeaux, too) from half bottle at Jardin des Remparts 4 or 5 years ago. I assumed it was shut down.
Serge – As a general note, you might try experimenting in the future by serving your Burgundies around 55-60 degrees. I think it brings the wines into better focus and gives a proper alcohol/acid balance.
For reds from Beaune, I am fond of Jadots’s 1er Cru Clos des Ursules (Beaune), particularly their '90 and '99 (the latter to be decanted for around 30-45 minutes before serving).
Frighteningly frequent coincidences, 'no?
Best,
N
I thought the same thing. It was quite a warm night though (that time, we ate outdoors). That, most likely, also had a lot to do with it. It was extremely warm in Burgundy and Bordeaux, in July 2006 - and I’m used to the heat of the Philippines, so that says a lot.
From a small sample set, I have really enjoyed Prieur Champs-Pimont Beaune; a very deep and structured Burgundy.