Why char barrels at all?

I know many if not most wine drinkers have been conditioned to expect toast, chocolate or coffee flavors in their wine, but this is yet another foreign oak flavor that detracts from the potential purity of a wine IMO.

Why did people start charing barrels? Other than adulterating wine, is there any practical purpose for charing?

I know my opinion is probably a minority one but the more I drink wine the stronger I am of this opinion.

Amen, sister.

However, I do think the fires serve a key purpose in ‘sealing’ the barrels from the inside - it’s not just to impart flavors.

What’s the matter, you don’t like liquid Viagra?

I dont get the joke.

i hear you, but once i started seeing the literally infinite ways that oak are used for burgundy – my preferred region for reds – i gave up focusing on it. too many producers that i like that use varying oak levels, coopers, and likely toast levels to draw any meaningful conclusion.

as to the reason it was done in the first place, i’m eager to read explanations as well.

Need to heat in order to bend the wood. Charring suppresses some overtones, obviously raises others. Here’s quick and dirty: Oak (wine) - Wikipedia. Too bad we don’t have Mel Knox over here.

Interesting. I suspect that in an age of spaceflight and microprocessors human ingenuity could come up with another way to bend stalves though.

Putting water in a barrel for a year or two would probably also suppress oak overtones.

Because charred oak masks the off flavors and gives sweetness that most of the population likes.

Less toasting = more coconut and green and sappy flavors, more toasting = coffee and campfire flavors… it’s not just a “more is worse” thing but a “more is different thing”

And as Claude mentioned, fire is traditionally how the wood is bent.

More frequently the issue is probably how much new oak is used, not necessarily that it is over toasted. I’d rather have 20% new overtoasted oak than 100% new undertoasted oak…

I’ve read the toast tends to suppress the extraction directly from the oak. So I guess one substitutes coffee, smoke and caramel for vanilla, coconut and wood tannin. In particular this means, counter-intuitively, more delicate wines actually are better aged in heavily toasted barrels to prevent the wood from overpowering them.

But this also raises the question, why not simply use more neutral oak? Or at least 2nd and 3rd use barrels. Only the winemakers know the answer to this question, I think.

WHy toasted oak?

Because notes of chocolate, coffee, and pain grille are associated with high RMP scores.

SAY NO TO OAK!!! I saw that bumper sticker on the wall of the tasting room when we were at Trimbach in June. Then we went along the main drag in Ribeauville and stopped at Cavist (sp?) or Le Caveau or something that to grab some Clos ste. Hune 375s and the owner lady talked me into an unoaked Margaux she had that friends of hers produced (I forget the chateau but, I have the label at home should anyone want to know) and it blew me away. I am sure some would have not liked it at all as it had a green tobacco note like that often found in Graves but, I thought it rocked. About a week ago, I decided to open a 2000 D’Aigulhe with boar and the oak just made the wine unenjoyable for me. Frankly, it blew goats! I have two more that will sit or get sold or given away or something.

Sorry … bit off topic …

This thread wouldn’t be complete without a Parker quip!

Well, I for one want to hear more about Bords with little/no oak treatment.

Stu,
I have the label in the album from the trip so when I am home I will post the name in this thread.

Raw wood is far more obnoxious and aggressive than toasted wood. Toasting helps seal the wood. And as mentioned, heat is needed for bending the staves. If modern science came up with a way to bend them w/out fire, then the wines wouldn’t be “natural” would they, since grandpa wouldn’t have done it that way. So that would be even worse.

Have you experienced a wine from raw wood? Wouldnt keeping water in the wood over a period of time suck out alot of the oak qualities?

Possibly, but the chemicals (i.e. Alcohol, …) in wine could definitely alter how the liquid interacts with the oak compared to water. You should ask if they have every done it next time you visit a winery and are talking with a winemaker. Perhaps they can give us a reason. My understanding is that Scotch barrels are all heavy toast (so past what we see for wine which is typically medium toast).

If memory serves, Riesling producers in Germany (maybe Alsace too) soak their new barrels (fuders?) in soda ash to leach out oaky flavors before use.

They are making barrel from water-bent staves. You can buy untoasted barrels.

Once again, I don’t think the use of toasted oak/new oak is inherently wrong. It is the levels used that can be objectinable. I have had wines that have been in 100% new oak and not tasted oaky. I have had wines in 20% new oak and tasted over-oaked. It depends on the wine, the barrels, and the usage thereof. Every wine if different, yadda yadda yadda.