The Garagiste Thread (The Great Enabler) Back to Life

[Yoni O v a d i a]

Someone else started on the last Berserker forum, so I figured I'd get it going over here....

Anyone biting on the 2004 Le Ragnaie Brunello di Montalcino that was just emailed out. Being another vintage of the century, I am tempted to, but will pass on this.

[Todd F r e n c h]

Someone else started on the last Berserker forum, so I figured I'd get it going over here....

Anyone biting on the 2004 Le Ragnaie Brunello di Montalcino that was just emailed out. Being another vintage of the century, I am tempted to, but will pass on this.

It truly is most convenient that each year is the vintage of the century, I might add...

[Kevin Klym]

Someone else started on the last Berserker forum, so I figured I'd get it going over here....

Anyone biting on the 2004 Le Ragnaie Brunello di Montalcino that was just emailed out. Being another vintage of the century, I am tempted to, but will pass on this.

It truly is most convenient that each year is the vintage of the century, I might add...

Early reports are 04 Brunello is spotty after being hailed as the vintage of the century . . . yet again. Galloni hinted at that in his forum on an 04 Brunello post. Plus, I just don't know enough about this producer, nor have I had enough Garagiste experience to know if John's flowing descriptions come true or not.

I attended an 04 Tuscany/05 Piedmont trade tasting last week and while the Poggio Antico was fantastic and the Lisini and Fuligni were good, but not mind blowing, I felt others were lacking. I believe this is in part due to the fact that the wines were only open an hour prior (doesn't John mention something to this fact in the e-mail about the SF event?) and thus were gripping, and not giving anything, as expected, at least for my palate.

I think there will be plenty of 2004 Brunello at screaming prices in mid to late Spring as this vintage doesn't live up to they hype and the anticipated economic conditions continue.

[Cris Whetstone]

Doesn't 2004 fall under the time when Brunello wineries were caught using fruit from other areas? Did they nail down whether that was a "few bad apples" or a common practice across the region? I'd have to defer to others for info on the vintage but I've roundly heard 2004 was good in Italy. Don't remember vintage of the century talk though.

[Kevin Klym]

Doesn't 2004 fall under the time when Brunello wineries were caught using fruit from other areas? Did they nail down whether that was a "few bad apples" or a common practice across the region? I'd have to defer to others for info on the vintage but I've roundly heard 2004 was good in Italy. Don't remember vintage of the century talk though.

Chris,

My vintage of the century monkier was probably overblown. From what I have tasted and read, 2004 Piedmont is living up to the hype. As for Brunello, most of the "scandal" was centered around the 2003 vintage, although there seem to still be some who wonder if all of the improprieties were revealed and thus wonder if the 2004s are, in fact, "pure" Sangiovese.

A great resource from an insiders view (albeit he is ITB, winemaker at Il Poggione) is from the Montalcino Report, of which I won't link, as I do not know the rules of such behavior on this site. Anyway, he has a post on there from mid December speaking to additional monitoring procedures to avoid another "scandal". It ties in with the whole grey market issue and his belief against it, etc., etc.

I am less concerned about another vintage marred by blending issues than by a) inconsistent quality and b) ever increasing prices based on superior vintage speculation.

I too, would defer to others for more info, however, as I am no expert.

[Cris Whetstone]

Thanks for the thoughts Kevin. I can't see any reason your link would be disallowed though. The more good info the better.

[zachary l a n g]

I just joined the garagiste emails...they wouldn't ship to Mass, but I just found out they can ship to NH. Just what I need, another source!

[Todd F r e n c h]

Doesn't 2004 fall under the time when Brunello wineries were caught using fruit from other areas? Did they nail down whether that was a "few bad apples" or a common practice across the region? I'd have to defer to others for info on the vintage but I've roundly heard 2004 was good in Italy. Don't remember vintage of the century talk though.

Chris,

My vintage of the century monkier was probably overblown. From what I have tasted and read, 2004 Piedmont is living up to the hype. As for Brunello, most of the "scandal" was centered around the 2003 vintage, although there seem to still be some who wonder if all of the improprieties were revealed and thus wonder if the 2004s are, in fact, "pure" Sangiovese.

A great resource from an insiders view (albeit he is ITB, winemaker at Il Poggione) is from the Montalcino Report, of which I won't link, as I do not know the rules of such behavior on this site. Anyway, he has a post on there from mid December speaking to additional monitoring procedures to avoid another "scandal". It ties in with the whole grey market issue and his belief against it, etc., etc.

I am less concerned about another vintage marred by blending issues than by a) inconsistent quality and b) ever increasing prices based on superior vintage speculation.

I too, would defer to others for more info, however, as I am no expert.

Kevin, no problem with links - if it is information that benefits the forum as a whole, we welcome it!

[Kevin Klym]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

[Yoni O v a d i a]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

Thanks for this, it looks like an interesting read.

FYI - for those of you who want to click on the link but don't want to be taken away from the site...hold down control and then click on the link. It should open up a new page with the info.

[Todd F r e n c h]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

I'm banning you.

[Kevin Klym]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

I'm banning you.

Sweet, Day 1, that's gotta be a record.

I went back and fixed the link as well. Didn't even think to add the url at first, just typed it in. Should work now.

[Todd F r e n c h]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

I'm banning you.

Sweet, Day 1, that's gotta be a record.

I went back and fixed the link as well. Didn't even think to add the url at first, just typed it in. Should work now.

Wait, I thought you were banned!?

[Rick Smith]

Sweet, so here it is:

http://www.montalcinoreport.com/

Pretty good reading, IMO

I assumed this board was a bit more flexible than, um, "other boards", but thought I would err on the safe side. I'm all about information/knowledge exchange as well!

I'm banning you.

Sweet, Day 1, that's gotta be a record.

I went back and fixed the link as well. Didn't even think to add the url at first, just typed it in. Should work now.

Pfft, I was banned as soon as I registered.

[Jorge Henriquez]

Pfft, I was banned as soon as I registered.

Pffft to you.....T-Bone was BORNED banned.

[Phillip F r a n k s]

I had to jump on the 2004 Cantina del Pino Barbaresco Ovello today. I just don't buy enough Italian.

[Kevin Klym]

I had to jump on the 2004 Cantina del Pino Barbaresco Ovello today. I just don't buy enough Italian.

I did too, and I buy TONS of Italian. This wine will be great (had the 01 and a few early notes on ebob sound positive) and is a pretty good bargain for 04 Piemonte.

[Todd F r e n c h]

Well, thanks to you freaks, I ended up buying 2 bottles of the Cantina del Pino also...

Anyway, today I received my first Garagiste shipment - cheap Southern Rhone stuff.

2006 Puydeval and 2005 Chateau Mas Neuf Compostelle

I'll crack one of them this weekend, perhaps.

[Paul L i n]

My vintage of the century monkier was probably overblown. From what I have tasted and read, 2004 Piedmont is living up to the hype. As for Brunello, most of the "scandal" was centered around the 2003 vintage, although there seem to still be some who wonder if all of the improprieties were revealed and thus wonder if the 2004s are, in fact, "pure" Sangiovese.

piedmonte was much stronger than tuscany in 2004. in 2005, they were both uniformly good. and tuscany will be the shining star in 2006. i don't really have the budget for a lot of italian wine, as pricey as they are, so i have implemented the plan of buying only 2004 barolo/barbaresco and 2006 brunello going forward. with any luck, however, garagiste will offer some older italians at good prices for current consumption.

[Cris Whetstone]

I posted a note on the 2003 Vignalta Monte Rey Syrah
http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Yoni O v a d i a]

Anybody bite on this?

1969 Pousse d'Or “Clos des Soixante Ouvrées" Volnay - $684.70

I only bought 3 cases worth since money's tight nowadays...

[Todd F r e n c h]

Anybody bite on this?

1969 Pousse d'Or “Clos des Soixante Ouvrées" Volnay - $684.70

I only bought 3 cases worth since money's tight nowadays...

They gave me a 6 case maximum.

All in.

[Cris Whetstone]

Posted another note in WT.
http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=480" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Yoni O v a d i a]

Anyone biting on the 2006 Pegau for $49.99? I would love to, but can't at the moment.

[Todd F r e n c h]

No Pegau for me, but it is tempting. I think it might end up available for less than that later, honestly, since the '07's are coming out, and almost no '06's seem to have sold.

I'm cracking 2005 Château Mas Neuf Costières-de-Nîmes Compostelle - a Garagiste (cheap) purchase. $18 is more my speed nowadays.

[Otto Dobre]

Price is $59.99. Our own Don Cornutt posted some super notes on this wine. I've had some past vintages and I love it.

Otto

[Todd F r e n c h]

Yeah, saw that one, and was quite tempted. I've been sticking to their under $20 buys more lately, however...

[Andrew Hall]

I resisted the Bouchard champers y'day, but did grab two Galardi today. I am only strong on alternate days.

A.

[Josh Beck]

This was a no brainer for me. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago to ask if they'd be offering the 06 Terra di Lavoro, as it sounds like a strong vintage, I love the wine, and I figured they'd have a great price, if not the best price we're likely to see, on the wine.

[BLittle]

i was wondering if there was going to be a Garagiste thread on this site... it was one of my favorites before it was locked... Should this be in another forum since it is retail?

as for this offering, tempting, but I've cut way back from the Great Enabler

[Ken V]

This was a no brainer for me. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago to ask if they'd be offering the 06 Terra di Lavoro, as it sounds like a strong vintage, I love the wine, and I figured they'd have a great price, if not the best price we're likely to see, on the wine.

I have seen this offered repeatedly for $75-85, but I have resisted.

This price is irresistible!

[Josh Beck]

They had the best prices I found on the 04 as well. Experience the past few years has shown that this wine invariably gets discounted / direct imported for far less than the MSRP (which is ~90-100, no?). I paid $60 for the 04, $66 for the 05, and now $60 for the 06. Seems to me it's a $60-$70 wine.

[Andrew Hall]

This was a no brainer for me. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago to ask if they'd be offering the 06 Terra di Lavoro, as it sounds like a strong vintage, I love the wine, and I figured they'd have a great price, if not the best price we're likely to see, on the wine.

I have seen this offered repeatedly for $75-85, but I have resisted.

This price is irresistible!

Evidently even Antonio couldn't resist either! TFF.

A.

[mike.m]

I picked up a few bottles of the 03 at $20 per from a distributor closeout. I tried to get more and some of the 02 but thet had ghost inventory showing.

How long should I wait on the 03? I only have 2 bottles and I would like to drink them close to their prime, even if that means waiting.

The one time I had it it was pretty damn tannic (but tasty!)

[Ed Murray]

I picked up a few bottles of the 03 at $20 per from a distributor closeout. I tried to get more and some of the 02 but thet had ghost inventory showing.

How long should I wait on the 03? I only have 2 bottles and I would like to drink them close to their prime, even if that means waiting.

The one time I had it it was pretty damn tannic (but tasty!)

Love this wine, haven't tried the '06.

I plan to wait 10 years for my '03's, assuming I can hold out. CellarTracker! shows a start date of 2017. How long can you wait?

OMG! I just said CellarTracker!!!!

[Otto Dobre]

OMG! I just said CellarTracker!!!!

Consider yourself banned!!!

[Cris Whetstone]

This was a no brainer for me. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago to ask if they'd be offering the 06 Terra di Lavoro, as it sounds like a strong vintage, I love the wine, and I figured they'd have a great price, if not the best price we're likely to see, on the wine.

I picked up a bottle as it seems the right folks to me like it. Though Otto's endorsement has me worried.

What do you recommend for a drinking window on these Josh?

[Todd F r e n c h]

You guys suck.

I went in for three.

[Otto Dobre]

Though Otto's endorsement has me worried.

What do you recommend for a drinking window on these Josh?

Ok Cris, you are banned too!!! How dare you challange the perfect palate???

[Josh Beck]

This was a no brainer for me. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago to ask if they'd be offering the 06 Terra di Lavoro, as it sounds like a strong vintage, I love the wine, and I figured they'd have a great price, if not the best price we're likely to see, on the wine.

I picked up a bottle as it seems the right folks to me like it. Though Otto's endorsement has me worried.

What do you recommend for a drinking window on these Josh?

There are others who have a longer trackrecord with this wine. However I'll say that there aren't many wineries that I'm this invested in with only three bottles drunk. Sadly I wasn't collecting when the 01 and prior vintages were released, and I'm not paying $150+ / bottle to backstock, so my experience is based on the 04 and 05, both of which I think are fantastic.

I would compare this wine to something like Leoville Barton or Montrose... not driven by ripeness or oak, but a LOT of tannin and structure, and a good bit of extract. Pretty serious wines. I don't know what their "shutting down" curve might look like, but the 04 and 05 both provided me a lot of pleasure. I've had two full bottles of the 04 and one of the 05, and a few tastes of other vintages/bottles here and there. I decanted my bottles several hours ahead of time, drank them with food, and thought they were fantastic. I am planning on holding the remainder of my 04/05 for another 5 years or so before checking in and thinking about digging in. When I get my 06's I will probably drink one with some great woodfired pizza and put the others to bed for a comparable 5-8 years minimum.

[Josh Beck]

One other comment... and this is somewhat supposition and maybe not giving enough credit to other tasters, but I'll forge on with it anyways:

I read a lot of notes from people who are underwhelmed. I think that this wine has a bit of a flashy image, having received high scores and being one of the very few high priced / culty wines in S. Italy (though clearly not that hard to come by). As a result, I think it gets purchased by a lot of people who like "big" flashy wines... Napa cab, and for Italian wines probably think Valdicava is the cat's meow. This results in notes from people who are underwhelmed because the wine doesn't have the mouthfeel (ie, alcohol and glycerin), "wow factor" (ie, sweetness / espresso / chocolate profile) that they look for and is instead pretty backwards, ashy, rocky, tannic, "dry" and with very fresh fruit, albeit hidden.

Anyways that's my guess based on notes I read on CT, versus my experiences and the folks I know who like the wine.

[Cris Whetstone]

One other comment... and this is somewhat supposition and maybe not giving enough credit to other tasters, but I'll forge on with it anyways:

I read a lot of notes from people who are underwhelmed. I think that this wine has a bit of a flashy image, having received high scores and being one of the very few high priced / culty wines in S. Italy (though clearly not that hard to come by). As a result, I think it gets purchased by a lot of people who like "big" flashy wines... Napa cab, and for Italian wines probably think Valdicava is the cat's meow. This results in notes from people who are underwhelmed because the wine doesn't have the mouthfeel (ie, alcohol and glycerin), "wow factor" (ie, sweetness / espresso / chocolate profile) that they look for and is instead pretty backwards, ashy, rocky, tannic, "dry" and with very fresh fruit, albeit hidden.

Anyways that's my guess based on notes I read on CT, versus my experiences and the folks I know who like the wine.

It wouldn't be the first time such things have happened Josh. Not to bash point chasers but there are many people out there who do just that and end up disappointed because they didn't consider the reviewer, their note or research the type of wine they were buying.

[Josh Beck]

It wouldn't be the first time such things have happened Josh. Not to bash point chasers but there are many people out there who do just that and end up disappointed because they didn't consider the reviewer, their note or research the type of wine they were buying.

Happens to me all the time

Recently I have been horrified at the Revello and Mas Romani wines I own. C'est la vie! Gotta taste to find out

[Otto Dobre]

Cris, I think that the Galardi will satisfy everyone. It is a big wine, yet mainly fruit driven rather than oak driven. So no chocolate notes in this wine. But it is a large, bruising wine, while not overextracted.

Otto

[Paul L i n]

I have never tried this wine, nor any wine from Campania for that matter, but Galloni's note -- "layers of flowers, violets, graphite, tar, smoke and black cherries" -- made this wine too tantalizing to pass up. Of course, the score did not hurt either.

[Josh Beck]

The 1999 Feudi di San Gregorio Taurasi Riserva Piano di Montevergine that Garagiste offered a while back is a mind bogglingly great $30 bottle as well. I had had the wine before and at $30 I bought a case and am wishing I had bought more...

In fact, seeing that K&L has the 01 for $40, I will have to sample that soon and, if it's anything like the 99, load up!

[Ken V]

One other comment... and this is somewhat supposition and maybe not giving enough credit to other tasters, but I'll forge on with it anyways:

I read a lot of notes from people who are underwhelmed. I think that this wine has a bit of a flashy image, having received high scores and being one of the very few high priced / culty wines in S. Italy (though clearly not that hard to come by). As a result, I think it gets purchased by a lot of people who like "big" flashy wines... Napa cab, and for Italian wines probably think Valdicava is the cat's meow. This results in notes from people who are underwhelmed because the wine doesn't have the mouthfeel (ie, alcohol and glycerin), "wow factor" (ie, sweetness / espresso / chocolate profile) that they look for and is instead pretty backwards, ashy, rocky, tannic, "dry" and with very fresh fruit, albeit hidden.

Anyways that's my guess based on notes I read on CT, versus my experiences and the folks I know who like the wine.

I think this is a very good point, Josh. This is a very serious wine. It is not lavish. Even though it is big, it leans toward austerity rather than fleshy fruit. The first vintage I tried was the 02. I posted a note on erp saying something like "call me crazy, but this reminds me of Haut Brion". Rico Thompson (whose palate I greatly respect) posted in the thread and pointed me to a note he had posted earlier which made the same comparison to Haut Brion. It has a gravely earthy quality. It also has great structure.

There is lots of talk about how Parker likes a certain type of wine. I sure don't want to open that can of worms here, but I can say for sure that Antonio Galloni has a very broad palate, e.g. in Barolo he likes everything from Rinaldi to Voerzio. So point-chasers have to be especially careful to read the notes and calibrate.

Here's a can of worms I will open up: When I list the noble red grapes of Italy, first comes Nebbiolo, then Aglianico, ahead of Sangiovese.


Sangiovese replies:

I got a list, here's the order of my list that it's in
It goes Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie
Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then me
But in this industry I'm the cause of a LOT of envy
So when I'm not put on this list, the shit does NOT offend me

[Andrew Hall]

Here's a can of worms I will open up: When I list the noble red grapes of Italy, first comes Nebbiolo, then Aglianico, ahead of Sangiovese.

Two ways to look at.

1) Which grape has a higher overall level across its expression? The Sangio > Aglianico

2) Which grape is capable of the highest expression? Aglianico > Sangio. Except that based on Pepe/Valentini, I'd put MdA > Aglianico. And time will tell if the experiments w/ Nero d'Avola will get there. I am open to the fact though that a Brunello will come along and ring my bell so solidy as to vault over the others which is the historical/marketplace position.


A.

[mike.m]

I picked up a few bottles of the 03 at $20 per from a distributor closeout. I tried to get more and some of the 02 but thet had ghost inventory showing.

How long should I wait on the 03? I only have 2 bottles and I would like to drink them close to their prime, even if that means waiting.

The one time I had it it was pretty damn tannic (but tasty!)

Love this wine, haven't tried the '06.

I plan to wait 10 years for my '03's, assuming I can hold out. CellarTracker! shows a start date of 2017. How long can you wait?

OMG! I just said CellarTracker!!!!

I'm only 28. I have time to wait. I tried it about a year ago and really liked it, but I wasn't sure of how it would shut down and evolve. Maybe I will try one in about five years and decide what to do with my last bottle.

[Todd F r e n c h]

i was wondering if there was going to be a Garagiste thread on this site... it was one of my favorites before it was locked... Should this be in another forum since it is retail?

as for this offering, tempting, but I've cut way back from the Great Enabler

I welcome a Garagiste thread on here, if someone wants to start one. We can guide threads/posts there as needed.