Premier Cru Master Complaint Thread (MERGED)

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james l moleberg
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#3001 Post by james l moleberg » December 8th, 2015, 12:39 pm

ybarselah wrote:
james l moleberg wrote:They are no longer issuing store credit either. A consulting company told them to cease store credit. In 3 weeks they are closed.
source for information, please?
You are speaking to the source- they just told me this

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#3002 Post by ehrlichdy » December 8th, 2015, 12:43 pm

Perhaps they need to preserve their remaining minuscule inventory? Otherwise, I don't understand why they would do this.
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#3003 Post by Arv R » December 8th, 2015, 12:46 pm

quasi related - a commenter on Yelp stated a few days ago that they were able to successfully get chargebacks on their credit cards because PC is no longer responding to the payment network dispute departments. the success of this depends somewhat on your bank, and how old the order is.

This link might work

http://www.yelp.com/biz/premier-cru-fin ... e=(direct)

PS: at some point this summer PC had engaged a debt settlement company called Cain & Daniels. Perhaps these are the consultant mentioned. I don't know though.
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#3004 Post by ybarselah » December 8th, 2015, 12:48 pm

james l moleberg wrote:
ybarselah wrote:
james l moleberg wrote:They are no longer issuing store credit either. A consulting company told them to cease store credit. In 3 weeks they are closed.
source for information, please?
You are speaking to the source- they just told me this
okay, that's a source, but what are your specific facts? what do you have outstanding? how long? i ask because they are telling folks stuff is coming in shortly, but your language seems....very immediate.
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#3005 Post by Nick Ryan » December 8th, 2015, 12:48 pm

james l moleberg wrote:
ybarselah wrote:
james l moleberg wrote:They are no longer issuing store credit either. A consulting company told them to cease store credit. In 3 weeks they are closed.
source for information, please?
You are speaking to the source- they just told me this
They told you what, exactly? That they will close in 3 weeks?
http://sites.google.com/site/nryan4242/CellarPlannerV11.zip

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#3006 Post by james l moleberg » December 8th, 2015, 12:51 pm

They told me they will no longer issue store credit as they were advised not to. My exposure is $2000 dating back to several purchases over last 3 years. I will pursue my options with CC.

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#3007 Post by james l moleberg » December 8th, 2015, 12:54 pm

They didn't tell me they will close in 3 weeks- in fact they said they will issue checks after the new year... That is precisely what leads me to believe they will shutter immediately following the new year. They said someone wiped them out of $15g in store credit substitutions this week and have ceased all store credit... To me the writing is on the wall that they plan to take what they can and then cease operations

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#3008 Post by Walter Nissen » December 8th, 2015, 12:56 pm

Just called and was also told that they are no longer doing conversions of pre-arrivals to in-stock. They would issue a refund check in 6-8 weeks if I were outside the 2 year pre-arrival window but as of now it looks like there are no options for people with pre-arrivals less than 2 years except to wait.

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#3009 Post by james l moleberg » December 8th, 2015, 12:59 pm

They told me to "trust them." I trust them as far I can throw them.

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#3010 Post by ybarselah » December 8th, 2015, 1:36 pm

james l moleberg wrote: I trust them as far I can throw them.
Well, with your bad knee...you shouldn't throw anybody

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#3011 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th, 2015, 1:39 pm

I'd say this is FINALLY getting real for some people...unfortunately probably too late...
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#3012 Post by R yan C omaz zetto » December 8th, 2015, 1:42 pm

Steven Miller wrote:
Larry P wrote:Contra Costa Times re-reports story linked above from Inside Bay Area. I notice it says the retail location is for sale:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breakin ... iness-over
That came up about 40 pages back...
I haven’t been following this from the beginning, so there’s new bits of info in this for me. And maybe this has been discussed already too, but the thing that sticks out to me is the reference to the June 6th NYT blog post, which quotes Fox blaming this all on his employees and how they’ve been miscommunicating to customers. Wow! How could anybody work for a guy that throws his employees under the bus like that? How has he been able to retain anyone to even show up to work?

Looks like that may not be a problem for much longer...

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#3013 Post by Dennis Kanagie » December 8th, 2015, 1:50 pm

M A T T H A R T L E Y wrote:I'd say this is FINALLY getting real for some people...unfortunately probably too late...
Chicken Little wasn't crying wolf.

Hope you don't mind mixing fairy tales. neener
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#3014 Post by andy velebil » December 8th, 2015, 1:52 pm

I can't recall getting any email blast from them for around a week now. Did I miss it or have they stopped sending them out? If the later, I think that may speak volumes.
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Re: Why does Premier Cru take so long

#3015 Post by ybarselah » December 8th, 2015, 1:54 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Gray market. Ponzi.

Take your pick.
Sigh.

K&L

Winex

Calvert Woodley

McArthurs

All ponzi schemes apparently.
is it time yet to re-post greatest hits from this thread?
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Re: Why does Premier Cru take so long

#3016 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th, 2015, 1:56 pm

ybarselah wrote:
Neal.Mollen wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Gray market. Ponzi.

Take your pick.
Sigh.

K&L

Winex

Calvert Woodley

McArthurs

All ponzi schemes apparently.
is it time yet to re-post greatest hits from this thread?
PLEASE
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#3017 Post by Peter Hirsch » December 8th, 2015, 2:26 pm

And btw, all those big bottles of Silver Oak are Gonzo Alonzo from the website. I'm gonna go out there on a limb and say that no one wandered in today and said "gee, I'd like me some huge bottles of oak juice", so those HAVE to be substitutions for pre-arrivals as they were on the site this morning...

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#3018 Post by NoahR » December 8th, 2015, 2:36 pm

Just stay open until the Madeira comes, for the love of god...
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#3019 Post by Dale Bowers » December 8th, 2015, 2:44 pm

I hope you get your Madeira Noah, but no guarantee even if it does arrive they will ship to you. I had Champagne arrive that they wouldn't ship to me. Have it for sale on their website instead.
Cheers!

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#3020 Post by Dennis Atick » December 8th, 2015, 2:46 pm

So...the options now if orders are < 2 years old is to
Trust them.
Or wait for a check in 6-8 weeks.
Or pursue with CC company.
Is this it?
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#3021 Post by Dale Bowers » December 8th, 2015, 2:48 pm

Dennis Atick wrote:So...the options now if orders are < 2 years old is to
Trust them.
Or wait for a check in 6-8 weeks.
Or pursue with CC company.
Is this it?
Pretty much.
Cheers!

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#3022 Post by D@v1dZ » December 8th, 2015, 2:57 pm

Dennis Atick wrote:So...the options now if orders are < 2 years old is to
Trust them.
Or wait for a check in 6-8 weeks.
Or pursue with CC company.
Is this it?
Trust them and wait for a check are the same option.

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#3023 Post by Dennis Kanagie » December 8th, 2015, 2:59 pm

DavidZ wrote:
Dennis Atick wrote:So...the options now if orders are < 2 years old is to
Trust them.
Or wait for a check in 6-8 weeks.
Or pursue with CC company.
Is this it?
Trust them and wait for a check are the same option.
.... and they love you, and won't c.......

nevermind, I'll stop right there.
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#3024 Post by p. raghib » December 8th, 2015, 3:06 pm

Dennis Atick wrote:So...the options now if orders are < 2 years old is to
Trust them.
Or wait for a check in 6-8 weeks.
Or pursue with CC company.
Is this it?
If I had significant money there I would get on a plane, rent a mini-van and back it up to the store's door. I would then take what I needed to take to make myself whole, if they wanted to call the police I would happily wait for them.

-about a year or two ago I had a local shop give me the run around for some bdx futures. When it went over a year and I'd been told multiple conflicting stories by the owner I told him I was going to do exactly as I described above if the wine wasn't in by a specified date. Apparently he went to the mkt and bought the wine so I didn't have to do it. But I promise you-I would've done exactly that.

-paul
cheers'

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#3025 Post by Dale Bowers » December 8th, 2015, 3:10 pm

Brother Leve, where art thou now?

Although in fairness, I could add a long list to just Leve.
Cheers!

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#3026 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th, 2015, 3:11 pm

Peter Hirsch wrote:And btw, all those big bottles of Silver Oak are Gonzo Alonzo from the website. I'm gonna go out there on a limb and say that no one wandered in today and said "gee, I'd like me some huge bottles of oak juice", so those HAVE to be substitutions for pre-arrivals as they were on the site this morning...
Updated down thread...
Last edited by M A T T H A R T L E Y on December 8th, 2015, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#3027 Post by R. Smith » December 8th, 2015, 3:33 pm

Bill Klapp wrote:
Ryan Caughey wrote:
Dale Bowers wrote:Hear is today's sh*t storm:

Have 9 bottles of Billecart NV Rose' on pre-arrival (among others). Low and behold, I see 16 bottles in stock for sale @ $76. Call and ask (then demand) they fulfill my 2 yo pre-arrival order before selling. I was told these are not my bottles, but are new ones bought at a higher price to sell. They refused to fill my back order with these bottles. Only offer was to to cash out my bottles (@ $46) and re-buy at $76.

What a crock of shit!!
That's insane.
Fox is begging for jail time. Let's hope that he gets it. The wheels have completely fallen off. He is likely guilty of mail fraud with that one. A guy named Barry Silver did time for EXACTLY the same stunt. He advertised wines for sale that were due to others. It made no difference where the new wines came from, or what he paid for them. Dale, you are not going to waste money with a futile lawsuit for 9 bottles of wine. It would be reasonable to contact the Department of Justice and see what their take on this might be, referencing the prosecution of Barry Silver of Silver Spirits, a Long Island wine shop of years ago. Silver was squeaky clean compared to this scam...

I'm glad you mentioned the Silver case. Here's an excerpt of what happened: "A complaint filed in federal court in Brooklyn, N.Y., last week alleges that Barry Silver, operated a scam in which he collected money for 2000 Bordeaux futures and then failed to fulfill those orders, even after he received the wines. "
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#3028 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » December 8th, 2015, 3:39 pm

After getting PC offers roughly every other day (if not every day) for many months, it has now been 10 days since I received an offer from them. Not sure if I dropped off their list or what...have others seen offers?

Anyone want to offer an over-under until they declare bankruptcy?

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#3029 Post by Poppy Davis » December 8th, 2015, 3:41 pm

Marcus Stanley wrote: Anyone want to offer an over-under until they declare bankruptcy?
January 4th
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#3030 Post by Josh Wertlιeb » December 8th, 2015, 3:44 pm

Marcus Stanley wrote:After getting PC offers roughly every other day (if not every day) for many months, it has now been 10 days since I received an offer from them. Not sure if I dropped off their list or what...have others seen offers?

Anyone want to offer an over-under until they declare bankruptcy?

I already did. I said 120 days a few days back, but that is too generous.

I think 60 days from now is a good one. I would take the under.

Josh

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#3031 Post by D@v1dZ » December 8th, 2015, 4:16 pm

January 4th

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#3032 Post by Nick Ryan » December 8th, 2015, 4:23 pm

p. raghib wrote: If I had significant money there I would get on a plane, rent a mini-van and back it up to the store's door. I would then take what I needed to take to make myself whole, if they wanted to call the police I would happily wait for them.

-about a year or two ago I had a local shop give me the run around for some bdx futures. When it went over a year and I'd been told multiple conflicting stories by the owner I told him I was going to do exactly as I described above if the wine wasn't in by a specified date. Apparently he went to the mkt and bought the wine so I didn't have to do it. But I promise you-I would've done exactly that.

-paul
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#3033 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th, 2015, 4:26 pm

DavidZ wrote:January 4th
I bet they don't even last that long...between the Bay Area article and this new policy on no more exchanges they are going to get covered up...

As has been noted by I think yourself and many others in this thread, once these things start to unwind it collapses very fast.
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#3034 Post by D@v1dZ » December 8th, 2015, 4:40 pm

M A T T H A R T L E Y wrote:
DavidZ wrote:January 4th
I bet they don't even last that long...between the Bay Area article and this new policy on no more exchanges they are going to get covered up...

As has been noted by I think yourself and many others in this thread, once these things start to unwind it collapses very fast.
I imagine they have to have in-stock sales b/w now and New Years, right? You have to try real hard not to be profitable in December.

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#3035 Post by Arv R » December 8th, 2015, 4:42 pm

They may be able to do cash only transactions at the storefront during the holidays with whatever dreck is on hand. University is a busy street, and people need gifts etc. for the next few weeks.

Perhaps the email sales effort halt is due to their credit card processor? Just speculation, but high levels of chargebacks should get a reaction eventually.
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#3036 Post by David Glasser » December 8th, 2015, 4:48 pm

The lack of email offers and the end of the pre-arrival to in-stock conversions is looking very bad indeed.

I was pro-PC for many many years. I want to thank Wine Berserkers for keeping me up to date and Paul Battaglia for several specific factual posts/PMs that convinced me that it was no longer business as usual. That allowed me to cash out a few months ago when they were still giving CC refunds.

My holiday wishes for everyone who still has skin in the game are that you get out relatively unscathed. I'm starting to think the odds of that happening are getting as long as those for my other holiday wish, for world peace.

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#3037 Post by Pat Martin » December 8th, 2015, 5:39 pm

Dale Bowers wrote:I hope you get your Madeira Noah, but no guarantee even if it does arrive they will ship to you. I had Champagne arrive that they wouldn't ship to me. Have it for sale on their website instead.
FWIW, I had had a half-dozen or so retailers do this same thing with my futures orders over the years... I'm still waiting, but I see they are selling the same wine as in stock retail.
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#3038 Post by Pat Martin » December 8th, 2015, 5:48 pm

David Glasser wrote:The lack of email offers and the end of the pre-arrival to in-stock conversions is looking very bad indeed.

I was pro-PC for many many years. I want to thank Wine Berserkers for keeping me up to date and Paul Battaglia for several specific factual posts/PMs that convinced me that it was no longer business as usual. That allowed me to cash out a few months ago when they were still giving CC refunds.

My holiday wishes for everyone who still has skin in the game are that you get out relatively unscathed. I'm starting to think the odds of that happening are getting as long as those for my other holiday wish, for world peace.
+1 all around, except I would single out Dale Williams as having repeatedly provided the most balanced yet compelling posts on the state of affairs at PC. Arv also did lots of gumshoe work that was detailed, factual and helpful.
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#3039 Post by Markus S » December 8th, 2015, 5:51 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
Dale Bowers wrote:I hope you get your Madeira Noah, but no guarantee even if it does arrive they will ship to you. I had Champagne arrive that they wouldn't ship to me. Have it for sale on their website instead.
FWIW, I had had a half-dozen or so retailers do this same thing with my futures orders over the years... I'm still waiting, but I see they are selling the same wine as in stock retail.
True, I've had retailers tell me the same exact thing even when seeing in-stock items that I thought should be the ones I ordered ("Oh, sorry, those wines were ones that others have ordered"), so it's not unique to PC.
Still, this is unraveling pretty quickly now...sad.
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#3040 Post by Markus S » December 8th, 2015, 5:55 pm

Pat Martin wrote:
David Glasser wrote:The lack of email offers and the end of the pre-arrival to in-stock conversions is looking very bad indeed.

I was pro-PC for many many years. I want to thank Wine Berserkers for keeping me up to date and Paul Battaglia for several specific factual posts/PMs that convinced me that it was no longer business as usual. That allowed me to cash out a few months ago when they were still giving CC refunds.

My holiday wishes for everyone who still has skin in the game are that you get out relatively unscathed. I'm starting to think the odds of that happening are getting as long as those for my other holiday wish, for world peace.
+1 all around, except I would single out Dale Williams as having repeatedly provided the most balanced yet compelling posts on the state of affairs at PC. Arv also did lots of gumshoe work that was detailed, factual and helpful.
Dale can always be counted on to give "just the facts, ma'am". I would say he would make an excellent reporter, without vitriol and innuendo.
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#3041 Post by Edward H. Earles » December 8th, 2015, 6:22 pm

My, this is interesting. I've learned more about the dark corners of the wine business from this thread than from everything else I've read in the prior 56 years of my life.

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#3042 Post by Joe Abruzzo » December 8th, 2015, 7:07 pm

After today's events, it's not looking good. Can/should I contact my credit card companies or do I have to wait for nothing to happen?
Last edited by Joe Abruzzo on December 17th, 2015, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#3043 Post by Dale Bowers » December 8th, 2015, 7:19 pm

I would take a charge back on any order your CC was willing to except.
Cheers!

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#3044 Post by gene keenan » December 8th, 2015, 7:23 pm

I hope nobody gets burned too badly. I exited the PC game years ago. Story about PC in SFIST today.

http://sfist.com/2015/12/08/berkeley_wi ... assive.php
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#3045 Post by Josh Schwartz » December 8th, 2015, 7:59 pm

Peter Hirsch wrote:And btw, all those big bottles of Silver Oak are Gonzo Alonzo from the website. I'm gonna go out there on a limb and say that no one wandered in today and said "gee, I'd like me some huge bottles of oak juice", so those HAVE to be substitutions for pre-arrivals as they were on the site this morning...
Actually Peter...you are wrong. I have it on good authority that Paul B. and some others went to the store today and converted pre-arrival to in stock after some back and forth. So that's where the bottles went...
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#3046 Post by John Ammons » December 8th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Josh, you seem to be confirming Peter's assumption that the Silver Oak was substituted for pre-arrival wines.

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#3047 Post by jcoley3 » December 8th, 2015, 8:18 pm

I feel very bad for all the people who had no idea what was going on there and have been buying PA stuff, and the employees. That has to be the nightmare job of all time right now. I have to wonder if the thing that closes them before 1/4/16 is no one showing up to work.
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#3048 Post by Josh Schwartz » December 8th, 2015, 8:21 pm

John Ammons wrote:Josh, you seem to be confirming Peter's assumption that the Silver Oak was substituted for pre-arrival wines.
I am only confirming it to the extent that someone went into the store and converted to in stock. The argument being that it was unlikely that someone actually went into the store and did this. And it was only converted after those who went there threatened to call the police. So Peter was wrong. People did go into the store and convert and got those bottles.
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Premier Cru Master Complaint Thread (MERGED)

#3049 Post by c fu » December 8th, 2015, 9:57 pm

Josh Schwartz wrote:
Peter Hirsch wrote:And btw, all those big bottles of Silver Oak are Gonzo Alonzo from the website. I'm gonna go out there on a limb and say that no one wandered in today and said "gee, I'd like me some huge bottles of oak juice", so those HAVE to be substitutions for pre-arrivals as they were on the site this morning...
Actually Peter...you are wrong. I have it on good authority that Paul B. and some others went to the store today and converted pre-arrival to in stock after some back and forth. So that's where the bottles went...
but you're agreeing with him o_O

Peter is saying it's unlikely that someone went into the store and randomly bought them.
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Chris Blum
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Premier Cru Master Complaint Thread (MERGED)

#3050 Post by Chris Blum » December 8th, 2015, 10:15 pm

Millions in wine still owed, 200 wines in stock.
"Well, wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit" -- Lucille Bluth
"The Packers f'n suck" -- Todd French

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