I have an old Le Cache Wine Vault that I bought used in which the Breezeaire WKB1060 cooler unit no longer functions. The vault is very similar to the Le Cache Vault 3100 Wine Cabinet on the Le Cache site, although the dimensions are slightly different and the cabinet is unfinished, so not nearly as sharp looking. I have the vault in a garage in Birmingham, AL. and was researching wine coolers to purchase when this site was mentioned in a Wall Street Journal article.
Upon reviewing some of the postings on this site, I was intrigued with some of the wine cellar construction and the “Kenmore” option postings which led me to research whether there was a commercial window AC unit that I could use rather than spending $1000+ for a CellarPro, Le Cache’s recommended wine cooling unit.
This led me to some of the small 5000 BTU window AC units currently on the market although none are the same size, 18w x 16.5d x 10.5h, as the Breezeaire, CellarPro, etc. although I did find one that is narrow enough and is only 3/4 inch taller. There is limited space in the vault, due to the racking for a taller unit. That unit is an LG unit @ Home Depot for $99 (LG Electronics 5,000 BTU Window Air Conditioner, Model # LW5012). But, I have a few questions / topics for those that might have some insight on this site about using one of these units as a replacement wine cooling unit:
What are your thoughts about the fact that the unit would be grossly oversized for my vault; i.e., a unit for a 10’ x 15’ room vs. an approximately 55 cu ft vault? Can I simple set it on cold and low fan speed to eliminate / limit the quick cycles?
One option that may alleviate the quick cycles would be to install an air splitter in the vault cabinet to regulate air circulation, forcing cold air to the side of the vault cabinet and hot air rising within the cabinet. Thoughts?
Since there are height differences, would / should one have any hesitation in cutting a larger hole in the back of the vault, as if this AC unit does not perform very well, I’ll have a 3/4 inch gap to patch and install a CellerPro cooler unit.
Because the cold air outlets on the LG are angled and at the top of the unit, there is very limited room between the outlets and the top of the vault. As a result is there anything that I should / might do to the inside top of the vault?
If so, then I should think that your most pressing concern would be ensuring that you had backup power, and, generally speaking, backup power of that magnitude is not going to be $99 a unit [not even on Craigslist - although Craigslist is certainly where I’d start looking for it - heck, I’d even look for the AC unit on Craigslist before I purchased new].
I think the issue you will have with the window AC unit is getting a constant temperature at the levels for your cabinet. Would be hard to believe you can get it running with the standard controls to a set point of 55-60 deg. One option is an external controller. I used a Johnson Controls unit on a cabinet that had a bad thermostat, available from Amazon or Beverage factory. Let’s you adjust to a sent point, offset for temp variation, and an anticycle function.
Or you could just trick it with the power supply running a resistor that’s taped to the temp sensor of the A/C unit.
I think that the overcapacity issue might cause issues with humidity. Also, the kenmore I have in my cellar cycles every few minutes (maybe every 10) to run air past the temp sensor to see if it needs to cool the room. I think this introduces a fair amount of outside air to the cellar, which in the hot summer would blow hot humid air in which isn’t ideal, especially in a small cabinet.
I think you should bite the bullet and get a proper Cellarpro unit that’s made for the cabinet. I wouldn’t want to risk my wine to a workaround solution. Plus commercial A/C units dehumidify while the Cellarpro unit can be set to the proper humidity. By the way, my POS Breezaire just went belly up too. I’m going to just buy a Cellarpro after I move in six months. Just moved all the wine in the Le Cache to my offsite, what a PIA. In my experience, it’s better to do the correct solution the first time around vs trying to save money and then eventually having to do the correct solution later on after the cheap solution fails. Just my 2 cents.
I kinda know where the OP is coming from though. The correct replacement for my old Breezaire 1060 is a $1000 Cellarpro (a Breezaire replacement would be the same cost). They put out ~1100btu of cooling. A Kenmore window AC unit that comes close to the same dimensions is… $160.
I do understand the difference in function, but damn, it’s annoying when the wine unit is 6x more for 1/5th the cooling power. Yes, it has to deal with lower temps and yes, it has to deal with humidity issues, but still…
The issue for me is exacerbated by the fact that I only need the active cooling for 2, maybe 3 months of the year.
I suspect volumes is a major factor in pricing differences. The likely much lower volumes for the wine cellar cooler that does exactly what you need drive the need for greater margins for everyone in the supply chain.
That said there is a ton of innovation right now on the electronic control side - and pretty soon the only difference will be the settings in the software.
Agreed Steven. And if I were in the OP’s shoes, I’d get a Cellarpro since I imagine Alabama is hot enough to require active cooling more or less 12 months of the year. Me, I’m seriously looking at converting a closet and using a thru the wall AC unit to provide active cooling for the 90 days when passive temps sneak high enough to need active measures.
Carlos - vibration isn’t a huge issue if you install correctly.
I’m a big proponent of the Kenmore solution and it has worked well for me for the year that my cellar has been up and running. The one thing I don’t have an answer for is vibration, though. I’m not sure that vibration is a huge issue (and also I’m not clear how much vibration difference there is between a Kenmore and a wine cellar specific cooler), but I wouldn’t take the long term risk if I felt that the A/C vibrations were impacting my wine. In my case, the Kenmore A/C is mounted in the foundation wall rather than the framing that the racking is fastened to. I don’t think I would put a wall A/C unit in if it were mounted in the framing itself.
I left myself the option to upgrade to a wine cooler later if necessary but so far I don’t have any reason to.
Once you get a steady state temp in the cooling unit, an oversized AC unit won’t run that long since it’s blasting out a lot of cold air. You just need to trick it into getting below 60 degrees. I don’t have the wiring diagram handy but it should be easy to google. Also, if the AC unit does not run much then it won’t defumidy as much either. Which may be OK since you want higher humidity in the cellar anyway because AC units are designed to it. You can always put extra padding around the AC unit to absorb vibration. Also, can anyone point to definitive studies that say vibration is bad? Or is it just folklore?
not sure about the vibration issue. I think some of the bias is that great cellars and collections tend to be cool, humid and not vibrate at all. The other issue, of course, is that at some level vibration could keep sediment in suspension and again, we know that it falls out in the traditional good cellar. Since artificial cellars on our homes are usually trying to mimic the classic cool, underground cellar…
Yeah but I think Bob has a good point. Moreover, the vibration, if any, provided by the unit still has to travel through the wall and the shelves to the wine. There’s a lot of loss along the way. And don’t the original cellar cooling units vibrate somewhat?
FWIW, I built a closet in the basement and just put in a small AC unit. I don’t need it year round but for June July and August I do, and I usually leave it running unless the basement temps are sufficiently cool. The fan runs but the compressor doesn’t unless it’s needed. It’s been in place for four years now and it’s working fine but I picked up a new unit this year. The setting on that unit already goes down to 60 so I don’t need to trick it all that much but I’d like to get a couple of degrees lower if I can. One thing you can do to trick it w/out even using a resistor is to pull the temp sensor out away from the unit. You have to feed it through the grill but when it’s in the more open air, especially if it’s near the top of the cellar, like mine is, it drops the temp another degree or so. Oh, and don’t forget to direct the air away from it.
The technology is exactly the same for an AC or a wine unit or a fridge or any kind of cooling unit really. It’s just tuned differently - compressor, condenser, evaporation coil, thermostat. But the more I think about it and the more I’m satisfied with the results of my existing arrangement, the more I’m convinced that there’s no reason at all to pay for a “wine” cooler if you can use an AC. Even if you buy a new one every few years just to be safe. I built my own cellar, my own door, and my own racks and the entire cost was under $1000.
I get the hesitation, but it’s really not necessary!
However, the OP has the unit in a garage in Alabama? The wine fridges are sealed and insulated, but somehow I’d be pretty nervous about that arrangement.
like you, I only need to cool my wine 3 months out of the year. Frankly, I’m not that worried about the temps being in the low 60s for 25% of the year since they’re in the 50s (low to mid) the rest of the time. I’d worry about using AC year 'round mostly because it dehumidifies… I’m not sure that I’d like it if the closet was always low humidity. But, again, for 3 months a year? eh.
Matt Kramer, in Making Sense of Wine, says that Dr. Vernon Singleton of U.C. Davis studied the effects of vibration on wine, and concluded that vibration is of no measurable consequence unless it is violent enough to produce cavitation - and that “the vibration necessary to cause cavitation in a bottle of wine, one may be sure, is far removed from everyday life.”
+1
I don’t think the wine cooler people are extorting us. They just don’t have the volume to price their units any lower. that said, that is a reason for them to go out of business as we all switch to Kenmores…
To me vibration is not an issue, and living in DC, humidity is not a problem…
Rick - if you’re using an oversized unit, which you will be since the smallest ACs are designed to cool rooms much bigger than the typical wine cellar, you may not have a humidity issue. One of the reasons to “size” your AC window units is to ensure that they’re also dehumidifying. If the unit is too large, it will shut off before it dehumidifies and the dehumidifying helps us feel cool. In your wine closet, you don’t care and in fact, you appreciate the fact that the unit isn’t adequately dehumidifying the space. It’s not good for you, but it’s good for the wine.
I’m a bit envious if you really have temps in the fifties so much of the year tho. I get them in the winter months only. But if you’re on the west side of the mountains, you should be good.
I have used a Kenmore like solution for about 8 years. The unit does not touch my wine shelving and does not transmit any vibration. I can easily keep my cellar at 60F but at about 58F, I have had trouble with the coils freezing up. Thus, I just keep it at 60F. $400 or $5000. No brainer for my part of the country. In the South, I would want a commercial unit with a backup generator unless the cellar was very deep.
I’ve used cheap, throwaway Home AC’s for the past 30 yrs.
Just make sure you super insulate your cellar and buy the biggest AC that will fit.
The added headroom will cause the AC to cycle less.
There WILL be a problem with water collecting at the bottom of the AC.
I roll up a paper towel and stuff one end into the lowest interior corner of the AC.
The other end is directly above a container to collect the dripping water created by the wicking effect.
If the air is too dry for your taste, keep a small bucket of water in a corner to add some humdity.