“When I got into the German and Austrian wine markets, I had very little competition and could cherry-pick a portfolio of an extraordinary group of growers who were not represented in the U.S. Those days are gone, by the way, completely gone. There is virtually nobody worthy in any of those countries who doesn’t have an American
importer.” - Terry Thiese
"The Question: When are Great Winemakers Born?
The Answer: All the time.
100 years ago, all of the great winemakers of today were yet to be born.
Future great winemakers are being born all the time. They are going to school.
They are training with other winemakers. They are releasing their first wines.
When a winemaker starts to make great wine, the heavens do not open and announce it to the importers in the United States.
The importers have to find out about the winemaker somehow,taste the wine and then convince the winemaker to sell them the wine for import into the UnitedStates.
There are many great winemakers who have not been imported into the United States.
And because they are less famous, their wines are excellent values, even in Europe.
You just have to look for them." - Lyle Fass
Below are both links. Fair and balanced? YOU decide.
Do you think there are any original ideas left in the world? Some people say that original ideas can still be conceived and some people say that all ideas today (and in the future) are mere permutations of ideas that already exist. Lyle, what do you think?
I believe there are many. Many can be permutations as well but if all the ideas already happened and have been executed to their finite end, why do we, as humans, still thirst for knowledge and originality?
I will defer to your knowledge of Germany and Austria, but it certainly seems like there are new wines appearing all the time on store shelves. A subset of those of outstanding wines and winemaking seems to be getting better all the time. I was really surprised to hear Thiese state that. I wonder if he is not beating the bushes like he used to or some of the “thrill of the hunt” is gone for him.
I think you’re both right in your own way, and I think the positions don’t necessarily have to be as mutually exclusive as you’ve positioned them.
Back in Terry’s day he uncovered whole regions with little or no developed market in the U.S. where he could cherry-pick top growers and develop the brands. In a market that’s gotten bigger, much more global, and much more competitive, those opportunities juts don’t exist in quite the same way as they perhaps did before. Which is not to say that new supplier geographies aren’t emerging all the time (Croatia, Georgia, Greece, etc. etc.) but they may be smaller, less attractive or more fought over than in the past. Also if one assumes there is a finite amount of truly exceptional land for growing grapes, by definition there will be less “new discoveries” of previously unknown, exceptional terroir over time. So it’s not to say that it won’t or can’t happen, but maybe not the same way or with the same impact as back then…
All that said, your points are absolutely valid as well – new geographies, new terroir, new winemakers, and new techniques are being created and discovered all the time. And in the world of oversupply that is the global wine market today, I vehemently agree that there are hundreds of high quality international brands that can’t find decent distribution in the US due to market concentration and saturation. So there continues to be plenty of room for innovation and discovery of new geographies, wines and brands, just perhaps not quite to the same degree as 30 years ago.
Geez, Lyle. I can’t believe this bothers you. It’s chest pounding, circling the opposition, name your metaphor, with a little derision thrown in to make it appear that he is the smartest in the room and there’s no point in anyone seeking another importer.
All you have to do is keep doing what you are doing. As you and I learned ten years ago working in Manhattan retail: there’s always a market for the new and the interesting.
True. But how many are not born to existing wine producing/growing families? I.e., how much potential is there these days for new estates, particularly in crowded regions like Mosel and Rheingau? I certainly hope there is some room for entry by new blood, but I think the larger fraction of that new blood will be from old blood lines.
Are there any unplanted great terroirs in Germany?
Alan Roth: “I certainly hope there is some room for entry by new blood, but I think the larger fraction of that new blood will be from old blood lines.”
And it is a virtual certainty that they will be working with existing and known terroir.
“Just because great wine has not been made in a specific place from a specific grape does not mean that it cannot be. It does not mean that it can either, obviously.”
"People who say that “you CAN only make great x in y place (as opposed to y is the only place that CURRENTLY makes great x) are misinformed. We do not have sufficient knowledge to make that statement. If anything, the rise of great wines in regions formerly thought only capable of making plonk should have taught us some humility. Some examples:
I formerly thought that the Mosel could not make good pinot noir until my last visit. The winemaker just figured it out. I found out that the Mosel used to be famous for its Pinot.
Some of the greatest dry Riesling in Germany is being made in the Northern Mosel. Formerly, it was believed that great dry wines could only be made in the South of Germany.
The most exciting dry wine region in Germany is now the Rheinhessen. 30 years ago, if you tried to make dry wines in the Rheinhessen, people thought that you were a nut.
Arguably the best pinot noir in Germany is being made in Franken. No one would have thought that this could be true 20 years ago."
As an importer, you brought German and Austrian wines and “no-name” grower Champagnes to the U.S. when these wines were at an all-time nadir of uncoolness. How did you break through into a resistant American market?
I was passionately committed. I really felt powerfully that this was a story that needed to be told – wines that people needed to see. Austria was kind of the same story. I was so blown away by the vitality of that culture, and the quality of the wines as they emerged from that wine scandal [of 1985]. Champagne was similar. The story was so sexy and so compelling: it was the last place in France that was in a choke-hold of négociants and co-ops. There was an opportunity for the growers to take back production.
When I got into the German and Austrian wine markets, I had very little competition and could cherry-pick a portfolio of an extraordinary group of growers who were not represented in the U.S. Those days are gone, by the way, completely gone. There is virtually nobody worthy in any of those countries who doesn’t have an American importer.