Extinct French grapes

I’m working on a project about extinct grapes and extremely rare wines.

Can anyone tell me of any extinct French grapes (preferably but not limited to Bordeaux.) I’m aware of the Carmenere being rediscovered in Chile… but I’m looking for history of a grape that is STILL extinct and has been since at least the 1800’s.

A grape that, if found today, would be considered very valuable.

I really appreciate all your time and help.

1 Like

Have you heard of Domaine de Vassal in southern France? They have a bunch of old, almost extinct grapes. It might be worth contacting them if you have not already done so. Here’s the English page:

https://www6.montpellier.inra.fr/vassal_eng/

Alain

1 Like

That’s great! – Thank you, Alain…

Braquet in Provence
Calitor in Provence
Duras - Southwest
Fromenteau - Champagne
Lladoner Pelut - Languedoc Roussillon
Merille -Southwest
Prunelard - Southwest - father of Malbec

those are just red grapes
I mean , how many do you want?

Jonathan, you ask for a 'history of a grape that is STILL extinct and has been since at least the 1800’s, a grape that, if found today, would be considered very valuable."

That’s a difficult ask, reason why wine grapes go extinct is because they either weren’t a commercial success or were too difficult to grow. There was a clearout at the end of the 1800s and start of the 1900s because of replanting after phylloxera. Another problem is that grapes were (and are) known by a huge number of names. So a 1799 could reference a grape named ‘X’ that is no longer found, while in fact ‘X’ was a local synonym for a grape widely grown today under another name. But how would we know without being able to examine the extinct ‘X’ ?

Also, wines were not generally not sold under the name of the grape variety, but by the area they were grown in or the style of wine they were trying to be, and many were field blends.

It seems you want to look at wine grapes specifically, but table grapes seem to have gone under greater changes; I’ve books listing table grapes grown in great English houses, but with the decline of those estates, today’s ease of shipping grapes from warmer climes, and the almost total move (in the UK) to new varieties of seedless table grapes, few of the grapes named in those old books still exist.


I was a bit puzzled by the reference to Prunelard being a parent of Malbec as parentage can only be proven by DNA and to get its DNA a vine must be obtained. So I looked in Wine Grapes and there is an entry (page 856) for Prunelard which says that in 2008 there were 32 acres. So rare, but not extinct.

Also rare, but not extinct are
Braquet
Calitor
Duras

Merille - is said in Wine Grapes to be ‘almost extinct’ with planting in 2008 at 55 acres down from almost 6,000 acres 50 years previously

Fromenteau may be rare in Champagne but it is a synonym for Pinot Gris which is not rare at all.
Lladoner is a synonym for Grenache and Lledoner Pelut is a synonym for ‘hairy leafed’ Grenache, first is common, second not rare.

PS - shouldn’t this thread be in Wine Talk section rather than Wine Pimps which is about retailing wine?

The Cave de St Mont specialises in rediscovering the rare grapes of South West France, you may find researching them of interest.

Incidentially, and not directly answering your question, Liber Pate from Bordeaux is quite an interesting wine - I’ve never had it myself but Jeff Leve has good things to say about it

That’s Pinot Gris. Nothing particularly rare there. Arbanne and Petit Meslier in Champagne are actually very rare.

Lladoner Pelut - Languedoc Roussillon

Lots of Garnacha Peluda - a synonym for Lledoner Pelut - grown in Spain.

those are just red grapes

Well, Pinot Gris is pink, not red.

And when it comes to Duras, there’s almost 1000 ha grown in France - I’d say that’s quite far from being extinct. Prunelard, however, would qualify, since only 15-ish hectares are currently farmed.

Saint Macaire might be one.

A Bordeaux variety grown in the 19th century, unsure if any left in France. Australia has the largest holding in the world with 2ha.

Please forgive me if everything below is incorrect:

Aren’t there a handful of unique grape varieties in California’s ancient, interplanted Zinfandel vineyards which have, more-or-less, disappeared from their native French homeland?

I specifically was thinking of the random vines Mr Morgan Twain-Peterson of Bedrock and Mr Mike Officer of Carlisle have identified in their Sonoma County vineyards. In addition, there was some mystery surrounding Cabernet Pfeffer/Mourtaou in San Benito County. Oh, and Abouriou* (aka “Early Burgundy”), grown in Derek Trowbridge’s two-acre estate RRV vineyard?

Are Castets, Mourtaou, Abouriou extant in their respective homelands?

According to the Vitis International Variety Catalogue:

· Castets - technically yes, 0.5 ha in France (in 2006);

· Mourtaou - dunno, NO info available under cultivar’s “Table of Area”;

· Abouriou - yes, 474 ha in France i(n 2006) .


Perhaps there are other wine grapes that are found only in the New World, having been eliminated from their homelands over the passage of years.

  • According to this article, the Old World Winery Abouriou vineyard is the oldest remaining parcel of the grape variety in existence and, for a brief time, was the only one in California. I am uncertain of the variety’s current acreage in France.

I just looked up “Saint Macaire” on the Vitis International Variety Catalogue.

VIVC profile for Saint Macaire

As of 2006, there were 0.6 hectares planted to the grape variety in France (down from ~200 ha in 1958). I wish there was a more up-to-date statistic available on the website!

Do you wish to know varieties extinct in France, or extinct worldwide?

FWIW Woodenhead Use to produce red bend (Ranch Red?) from the Guido Venturi vineyard thay was 70% Abouriou/Early Burgundy. It is not on their current list but was quite good. I hope the vines are still producing.

I did enjoy the Old World Winery Abouriou the one time I tried it.

If you look at the INAO regulations for Bordeaux generic red and white, you can see a bunch of grape that perhaps not extinct but rarely used. For whites, there are a bunch of fun things listed in the accessory grapes that cannot constitute more than 30% of the blend:

Red (not too much surprise here)
Cabernet-Sauvignon, Cabernet franc, Carmenère, Merlot rouge, Malbec, Petit Verdot

White:
principal: Sémillon, Sauvignon (blanc), Muscadelle
accessory: Merlot blanc, Colombard, Mauzac, Ondenc,Ugni blanc (trebbiano)

So for example you can have a 100% malbec wine and still call it Bordeaux. However if you produce a 100% colombard, you can’t call it Bordeaux Blanc.

FYI Notice this is just for bordeaux generic. Each AOC has its own rules which is much more constraining. Also, I haven’t listed the recently permitted grapes such as Alvarinho, Petit Manseng and Liliorila.

Fun anecdote: I’ve had one such wine. Was a very tough and unapologetic effort. Lean, not particularly weighty and very tannic stuff.

Not extinct, but maybe Gringet could qualify.

https://www.chambersstwines.com/Articles/4417/dominique-belluard-savior-of-gringet.

I had Belluard’s Gringet Les Alpes earlier this year. It was undrinkably mousy along with a rather acetic streak of VA.

A wonderful phrase that I intend to steal and recycle!

Hopefully not in the critic bingo thread. [snort.gif] But by all means, sharing is caring! And the more accurately one can describe wines, the better!