Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

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Randy Bowman
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Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#1 Post by Randy Bowman » October 26th, 2010, 8:53 pm

Do we have any members who are wine retailers in the above listed states? These five states come to mind where wine retailers are not allowed to sell their wine on line, outside their state. (Of course, Pennsylvania has no retailers because the state totally controls sales.)

Since the retailers in these states are financially crippled regarding on-line sales by state law, do they bother to participate on wine boards? Is the "States" status quo regarding on-line sales acceptable? How much business are they losing to on-line retailers because of their State's laws regarding retail sales by local merchants? Can we, Berserkers and retailers, help those individuals expand their business?
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#2 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 27th, 2010, 8:39 am

LOL have you read any of Peter Tryba's posts? I think Marty's does ok in Boston without being able to ship. [snort.gif]
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#3 Post by Marc_Hanes » October 27th, 2010, 8:45 am

Brent Clayton wrote:LOL have you read any of Peter Tryba's posts? I think Marty's does ok in Boston without being able to ship. [snort.gif]
Marty's is clearly by any metric the best retailer on the east coast, if not further out, and recently very successfully expanded in a down economy. Envy is in poor taste.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#4 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 27th, 2010, 8:49 am

You talkin' to me?

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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#5 Post by JP Taboada » October 27th, 2010, 9:48 am

I am here in TX and we can ship anywhere allowed within the USA. Funny thing is that we're not allowed to ship IN state. According to out of date liquor laws that are still in place, that constitutes boot legging.

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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#6 Post by Marc_Hanes » October 27th, 2010, 10:23 am

Brent Clayton wrote:You talkin' to me?

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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#7 Post by Ken V » October 28th, 2010, 7:07 am

Marc_Hanes wrote:
Brent Clayton wrote:LOL have you read any of Peter Tryba's posts? I think Marty's does ok in Boston without being able to ship. [snort.gif]
Marty's is clearly by any metric the best retailer on the east coast, if not further out, and recently very successfully expanded in a down economy. Envy is in poor taste.
I think both these statements are wrong.

Brent, even if they're doing quite well, why wouldn't they want to enlarge their customer base?

Marc, Marty's is a very good store (my cousin even works there!). I have shopped there for over 20 years. But there are some other very good retailers on the East Coast depending on what you are looking for.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#8 Post by Marc_Hanes » October 28th, 2010, 8:24 am

K V a s t o l a wrote:
Marc_Hanes wrote:
Brent Clayton wrote:LOL have you read any of Peter Tryba's posts? I think Marty's does ok in Boston without being able to ship. [snort.gif]
Marty's is clearly by any metric the best retailer on the east coast, if not further out, and recently very successfully expanded in a down economy. Envy is in poor taste.
I think both these statements are wrong.

Brent, even if they're doing quite well, why wouldn't they want to enlarge their customer base?

Marc, Marty's is a very good store (my cousin even works there!). I have shopped there for over 20 years. But there are some other very good retailers on the East Coast depending on what you are looking for.
Looks like my post went over the head of yet another reader. Droll, not troll. Sigh.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#9 Post by Ken V » October 28th, 2010, 10:21 am

Marc_Hanes wrote:
K V a s t o l a wrote:
Marc_Hanes wrote: Marty's is clearly by any metric the best retailer on the east coast, if not further out, and recently very successfully expanded in a down economy. Envy is in poor taste.
I think both these statements are wrong.

Brent, even if they're doing quite well, why wouldn't they want to enlarge their customer base?

Marc, Marty's is a very good store (my cousin even works there!). I have shopped there for over 20 years. But there are some other very good retailers on the East Coast depending on what you are looking for.
Looks like my post went over the head of yet another reader. Droll, not troll. Sigh.
Please explain to those of us not so gifted.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#10 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 28th, 2010, 11:32 am

Ken,

I'm sure they wouldn't mind expanding business, but it's for them to speak of not for us to speculate on. When I worked there, we did try partnering up with some of the 800-wine online type deals, but because they set national web prices that didn't take into account our local purchasing/shipping costs, we found them not really beneficial.

I think Randy's initial point, of perhaps setting up a network of stores that could have mutually beneficial relationships is certainly a valid and useful one. For instance, if a customer walks in to Randy & Carrie's and wants something delivered to a friend in MA, which they cannot do themselves as they can't ship wine into MA, then they could call Marty's and work something out to get the order done that would be beneficial to both parties, rather than a straight referral that makes the customer do the work and calling Marty's direct.

As far as Marc is concerned, I think he's transferring his own envy to my statement. He's the one that left that crappy wine market in NYC for the bustling wine market of...Charlotte, NC. Marc, I hope you get to go out a lot with Eric Solomon and Kelly Walker. [drinkers.gif]
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#11 Post by Randy Bowman » October 28th, 2010, 2:03 pm

And,

I would like to know what wines aren't available to some of those retailers. We get requests for certain wines that the customer can't find locally in states like Mass. We can pass on those requests to the nearest store that does have the wine. If the wine isn't available in the state because of no distribution, we can pass that on to individual wineries along with any name of distributors provided by the retailer.

Funnier yet, in the middle of this post a customer came in asking for an Italian wine she can't find anywhere. She said was from New Jersey and works in NYC, so I checked Grapes the Wine Company website, bingo. A sale for Daniel.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#12 Post by Marc_Hanes » October 28th, 2010, 2:11 pm

K V a s t o l a wrote: Please explain to those of us not so gifted.
My initial post was 100% sarcastic and more or less aligned with the [snort.gif] of Mr. Clayton's initial post.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#13 Post by chaad thomas » October 28th, 2010, 7:10 pm

Randy Bowman wrote: (Of course, Pennsylvania has no retailers because the state totally controls sales.)
That is incorrect; there are PA retailers who work outside of the PLCB, and they (at least one I know of) can ship. For example, see http://dreadnoughtwines.com/
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#14 Post by Randy Bowman » October 28th, 2010, 7:29 pm

Thanks Chaad,

Went to the website and after some searching figured out they do ship outside Penn. In looking at the list of wines I am curious if they have to purchase their wines through the PLCB or have access to a distributor with a wider selection.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#15 Post by chaad thomas » October 28th, 2010, 7:42 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:Thanks Chaad,

Went to the website and after some searching figured out they do ship outside Penn. In looking at the list of wines I am curious if they have to purchase their wines through the PLCB or have access to a distributor with a wider selection.
I'm not sure how it works exactly, but basically I think they can buy anything that's not in the PLCB store system, so they therefore buy from distributors and importers (e.g my company).
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#16 Post by Randy Bowman » October 28th, 2010, 8:03 pm

That's a lot better than what I had thought. In checking on the various states and talking to Berserkers who live in them, I thought the PLCB completely controlled both the purchases and sales in Penn, eliminating citizen retailers and distributors, while dictating what would be available to the public.

I have gotten a lot of complaints from visitors from Penn that they have no access to the selection of wines they want because of the PLCB system. Need to identify and promote those retailers in Penn that can get/do have some of those wines they are looking for.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#17 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » October 28th, 2010, 8:35 pm

I was under the impression that in PA there is another loophole that allows an individual to have mailing list type wines shipped to you as long as they go through a PLCB store and they add a tax/duty/markup to them?

As far as the system goes, however, they position themselves as one of the largest wholesalers in the country, so they seek 'max' deals based on volume. Prices in PA can be competitive, but they are buying in deep on a more limited number of items, so selection is smaller compared to neighboring states such as NY & NJ that have open markets.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#18 Post by Randy Bowman » October 28th, 2010, 8:48 pm

Brent,

I have heard the same thing and a winery owner or two that I know, have outright told their distributors that their wines will not be discount sold to Penn. Others have said Penn had no interest in their wine. Catch 22.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#19 Post by Peter Tryba » November 1st, 2010, 12:19 pm

Wait,
Did I get insulted in there? [scratch.gif]

Just kidding! Thanks for the compliments, I'll accept for the entire company. All of us strive daily to make Marty's a great place to shop and work.

Randy's describing a crazy, seemingly-unheard-of-in-the-wine-business practice: the referral.

With the "no shipping anywhere from anybody" bill coming before Congress, you would think wine shop employees who share so much time with each other on a wine BB would also want to perpetuate those relationships by "referring" customers to one another.
I can't ship, so I do it all the time! It's fun and rewarding to help a fellow purveyor out. There's enough wine and plenty of customers to go around.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#20 Post by Mark Cochard » November 11th, 2010, 10:36 am

chaad thomas wrote:
Randy Bowman wrote: (Of course, Pennsylvania has no retailers because the state totally controls sales.)
That is incorrect; there are PA retailers who work outside of the PLCB, and they (at least one I know of) can ship. For example, see http://dreadnoughtwines.com/

I was going to mention Dreadnought, then I saw your post Chaad.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#21 Post by Mark Cochard » November 11th, 2010, 12:37 pm

Here is Mike's response
For your information according to big Brother aka PLCB distributors must sell all wines retail through the PLCB unless we designate an item as restaurant only. The only thing that Dreadnought started doing 30 years ago was promoting the idea of buying retail through the PLCB. To do this first it must be a brand that we represent. Although PA is not legally a franchise State, the PLCB policy is that a winery can only be represented by one distributor. To complete the retail order process we must maintain a separate checking account to deposit funds. Go to a State Store place an order on the customer behalf wait at least 2 business days. Go back to the store, show them the wine, and pay the balance. At that time the customer can pick up their order. Yes this is a pain in the neck but we have done it. We are “lobby” for a Dreadnought vending machine. Otherwise yes we are living the classic definition of “insanity”. Doing the same thing repeatly expecting a different result.

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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#22 Post by G B a r k l e y » November 16th, 2010, 6:35 am

I was recently employed by a retailer in Texas and can verify what JP said. Texas retailers can ship out, Texas consumers just can't legally ship in (unless they find a retailer willing to skirt the issue by using the customers fedex/ups number, etc).

I don't know if it was illegal, but we did ship within Texas and had no problems with the state or with FedEx. I know we were legally allowed to deliver within our county, which we also did frequently.

From my experience, the lack of interest/activity is due in part to the difficulty in being competitive in pricing compared to east and west coast retailers. Often we were looking at "best pricing" on anything from a $10 Pinot Grigio to $300 Rhone, Burgundy, Cali Cab, etc that was 10-15% higher than half a dozen NON pro wine-searcher listings. That makes expanding nationally not only very difficult, but also undesireable from a profitability standpoint.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#23 Post by Tom Gutting » November 16th, 2010, 7:36 am

Yeah, Texas retailers can ship out, but out-of-state retailers can't ship in. It's part of the free-wheeling, open markets policy we have down here.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#24 Post by justinmcinerny » December 22nd, 2010, 7:16 am

Maryland is getting dangerously close to allowing direct shipping by wineries. I do not think retailers would be able to ship under the proposed law http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... 2560.story. The legislature is out of session right now. The normal session runs from January to April I believe. If a law were passed, I do not think it would go into effect until the middle of next year at the earliest.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#25 Post by Kyle S chaffer » December 30th, 2010, 10:46 am

justinmcinerny wrote:Maryland is getting dangerously close to allowing direct shipping by wineries. I do not think retailers would be able to ship under the proposed law http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... 2560.story. The legislature is out of session right now. The normal session runs from January to April I believe. If a law were passed, I do not think it would go into effect until the middle of next year at the earliest.
Thanks for this post. It was an interesting read. I'd be pumped if wineries could ship to MD!

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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#26 Post by PaulM » February 1st, 2011, 1:46 pm

Randy, I'm pretty sure Michigan retailers can ship. I'm 100% sure that at least some of them do.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#27 Post by Scott VZ » April 4th, 2011, 2:24 am

Ken, who in your family works at Marty's?

Also, if there are any people in Western MI, Rishi at International Beverage at E.Paris and 28th St in Grand Rapids has served my family well, and he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Obviously, if you're in Boston, swing on into Marty's, and we'll be sure to take care of you.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#28 Post by Ken V » April 4th, 2011, 7:30 am

Scott VZ wrote:Ken, who in your family works at Marty's?
David Olsen-Billet, though he's really family by choice. His father, Matthew Billet (who posts here occasionally) is the first cousin of my brother's wife. We met for many years at my brother's house and have a common interest in wines. As you get older, you have the prerogative of choosing your family, so I think of Matthew as a cousin and David as a nephew, even though technically we are only related through my brother's marriage. Last I heard, David was working in the new store.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#29 Post by Scott VZ » April 4th, 2011, 8:41 am

Small world. Yeah, David's still there, I see him almost daily, and see Matthew once every couple of months. Good to know!
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#30 Post by ekovitch » April 4th, 2011, 9:19 am

Paul Marquardt wrote:Randy, I'm pretty sure Michigan retailers can ship. I'm 100% sure that at least some of them do.
Legally speaking, wine can only be delivered by employees of the store. Doesn't mean that someone out there isn't pushing the law.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#31 Post by Ken V » April 4th, 2011, 12:38 pm

Scott VZ wrote:Small world. Yeah, David's still there, I see him almost daily, and see Matthew once every couple of months. Good to know!
Check out these photos from a dinner put on by Marty's with the D'Arenbergs in 2003. You'll see a younger me and a younger Matthew, as well as some former employees. Let's just say that David was exposed to wine at a young age! [cheers.gif]

http://www.finewinegeek.com/tn/2003-06- ... rg_Boston/
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#32 Post by Peter Tryba » April 5th, 2011, 10:05 am

I see the back of my friend Nick's head (formerly of Marty's). Apparently, I was too cool to pose that night.
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Re: Wanted: Wine Retailers in Michigan, Massachusetts, Maryland, Pennsylvania or Texas

#33 Post by Ken V » April 6th, 2011, 5:36 am

Peter Tryba wrote:I see the back of my friend Nick's head (formerly of Marty's). Apparently, I was too cool to pose that night.
You worked there even then? In Newton or Allston?
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