How often do you know the wine?

Newb question that I just have to ask. How often do you know the wine someone is talking about? And sub-question, how long did it take you to get there?

Example: the gentleman who asked what people are opening to kick off the new year mentioned one of his choices is a “2002 Billecart-Salmon Cuvée Nicolas-François Billecart.” To me that means a copy/paste into Google and see what I can find. But I’m wondering, how many years does it take to see “2002 Billecart-Salmon Cuvée Nicolas-François Billecart” and think, “Oooohhhh, the oh-TWO six-word-title-with-a-bunch-of-words-I-can’t-pronounce wine! That’s a great bottle!” Because with 27,000,000 wines out there, from where I’m standing, it seems like an endless, impossible-to-know-them-all catalog. It also seems like a really fun journey that I look forward to very much. [cheers.gif]

If you spend a lot of time here, you’ll probably come to recognize a pretty good percentage of the wines mentioned. Off the top of my head, there are probably around 100 Bordeaux wines that make up a very large portion of Bordeaux mentions (and if you took the top 200 or 250, probably almost all mentions). Maybe 50 Burgundy estates, 30 or so Rhones, 30 Piedmont producers, 50 or so champagne producers, etc. maybe 20 Oregon producers and 50 from CA. Experts in these areas will know many more but I guess that some numbers like these dominate the postings.

Of course many producers make many wines, and in some places (particularly Germany) it can be hard to keep track of exactly which wines each producer makes, but you’ll often become familiar with the place names and designations so if you read that a particular producer makes a Riesling Spätlese from a certain place it may be more familiar in concept than if you didn’t know what any of these things meant.

I’d guess that I recognize 70-80% of the wines mentioned in this sense, but in many cases it’s only in concept: I’ve probably tasted most of the top Bordeaux and Burgundy estates but only a small portion of the top Italian or German producers.

A lot of it comes down to what area you choose to focus as well as those well recognized names. In this case I have the Champagne you mentioned in my cellar so I know exactly what they are talking about. The reason I have the bottles in my cellar is because 02 is a fantastic Champagne vintage and Billecart Salmon is one of many great producers and their Cuvée Nicolas seems to be the most popular.

I learned that here through reading various threads for the past 8 months as well as reading CT reviews. But I know nothing about any other vintage of theirs or any other Cuvée. And there’s a million other wines discussed around here that I don’t know anything about. What I’m trying to say is you don’t have to know everything to start learning something.

Just as a reference comparison, there are millions of places to visit in the world, and millions of books published. Yet, if you are an experienced traveler, or an avid reader, you will recognize the titles of books and the authors your friends suggest, and my even know of the small inn in a far away country your friend has stayed at. You probably will have run into someone you know on the street of foreign country, out of millions of residents and visitors.
The circles we run in intersect surprisingly.

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Thanks for the thoughtful replies, all. Really appreciate it. Much to learn, and like I said, I look forward to the journey!

My wife and I live a couple hours north of Paso Robles, which seems like a good enough place to start. We’ve only thus far checked out Tobin James (stayed there in our Airstream last month as they’re a host with Harvest Hosts) and Austin Hope, which we really liked and have explored a number of their offerings (’16 Cab, ’17 Reserve, Mourvèdre, Liberty School, LS Reserve and Troublemaker). We also live 35 miles from Ridge and plan on visiting there as soon as the covid stuff goes away. There are a lot of wineries up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains actually… Anyway, I think I’ll start local and work my way out / around. If anyone has any suggestions I’m all ears! I am somewhat familiar with some Napa and Sonoma wines (Silver Oak, Jordan, Mondavi, Stags Leap, Josh, Hess… to name a few) in large part thanks to my in-laws, who’ve lived in and around the Bay Area their entire lives and have been avid wine collectors and drinkers since the 80’s. I need to start paying attention to what my father-in-law is pouring. All these years I’ve enjoyed everything he’s shared but I’ve never paid attention to what it was. Time to start taking notes!

Thanks again, all!

I am sure you’ll be able to find lots of Paso Robles suggestions through the search function. I am by no means an expert in Paso or CA, but I would definitely try Tablas Creek.

Will do! We’re planning to head down to Paso with our Airstream in mid-January if the stay-at-home orders have lifted by then - will check out Tablas Creek then.

I am completely aligned with Andrew on this. Also, I would add “producer” to Andrew’s statement (what area and producer). My dad was an airline pilot, but he bought a farm and so I grew up getting up every morning to do chores before school as well as traveling, and so for me it is as much about the people producing the wine as well as the area.

I enjoy wine for it’s own sake to be sure, and especially enjoy finding excellent pairings, but the icing on the cake to me is always recalling the producer of the wine and their commitment to their land and their product.

So begin your exploration and get to know the growers and wine makers, I believe you will be the richer for it.

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Excellent points, John. Thanks!

This is funny because we just drank the 02 BS Cuvee Nicolas Francois on our wedding night! In all seriousness, it takes a while. You learn the producers, the regions, the types of wine and then it starts coming together more. I’d say I’ve been fairly casually getting into wine over the last 4 years and more seriously the last 2. I still come across labels that don’t make sense to me off the bat.

To add something not yet mentioned:

I learned quickly by reading through auction catalogues (see this one for example https://auction.zachys.com/AuctionDetails.aspx?auctionid=95)

Auction catalogues are a good source for familiarizing yourself with what’s “blue chip”, they are well organized (red the index at the back which is usually arranged by region and producer), and include pictures/notes/prices across vintages.

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I’ve been hanging out here for 10 years and have Billecart Salmon in my cellar but this thread is the first mention of Cuvée Nicholas I recall. So to answer your question Bob you never really know everything people are talking about. Hell, I live in Sonoma County and have scores of friends who are winemakers or ITB and I have only scratched the surface of producers here in Sonoma and Napa. Just enjoy the journey because it is ongoing.

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Well first of all, congrats on getting married! [cheers.gif] And thanks for the advice. Makes sense. I’ve been in the whiskey and Cuban cigar game for the past 5ish years and it was the same there. I guess it’s a personality thing; I just want to know it all from day one. I need to learn to slow down and enjoy the process.

Right on - I’ll dig into that for sure. Thanks Alex!

My father-in-law (who’s a Bay Area native and has been an avid wine collector / enthusiast since the 80’s) said the same thing the other day: “…just in Napa and Sonoma counties alone, you’ll never run out of wine to try. Napa has something like 1,700 [wineries] and Sonoma 425. And every year there’s more…” So yeah, one could spend their entire life just trying to make their way through Napa. As I’ve said before, we’re starting with Paso wines and are already having a blast with it. I really look forward to getting to actually go to the wineries and experience them as opposed to shopping at liquor stores. It’s still fun drinking different bottles and comparing, but there’s no experience or story to go along with a trip to Total Wine.

Thank again all for your thoughtful replies - I really appreciate it.

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I’ve visited California wineries for 40 years and have been in the retail side of the business for the past 15. I’m much more familiar with West Coast US wineries and yet every week I hear/read about new wineries for the first time. The fun part is the tasting!!!

It happens more than you’d expect. When I was working in Europe I ran into a HS math teacher in Bratislava of all places.

Alright, I’ll give up on trying to learn it all in a day. :slight_smile: No I did know it was going to take a while, I was just curious how long, on average, it took people to get familiarized in a general sense. I was also curious how many people in here would chime in with their experience. In the whiskey and cigar worlds I still see things in both all the time that I’ve never heard of and it isn’t discouraging - sometimes I look into them, sometimes I just keep scrolling and don’t think any more of it until / if I see it again. And even then, depending on my mood and how much time I have or effort I want to put into it, I may just keep scrolling. You’ll never know every cigar that’s ever been rolled, so why worry about it? But for whatever reason when digging into something new, for me, seeing a million varieties of something just makes it all a bit overwhelming. Like I said above, I need to learn to slow down and enjoy the process.

Ha. Just wait until the acronyms… PYCM et al

Yeah acronyms are always fun when getting into a new hobby! In the bourbon world no one ever spells out a full name. Out of sheer laziness I’ve always guessed. At least around here you guys spell out your wines.

So to be the example of always learning, I have never done this - great tip Alex - thank you!

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That’s an excellent question, Bob!

The world of wine is kinda endless so I don’t think it’s possible to get to know all the regions and producers in a lifetime, you’re gonna a lot more than this! :wink:
However, I think a general knowledge about wine might be valuable to open your horizons like you said. Getting to know the main wine regions, grape varieties and wine styles may help you get to know even more.
Starting generic can help you dive deeper into different regions. However, you do need to focus on a small part of what you want to learn in wine.

Studying wine for almost 4 years and teaching it for over 2 years, I’m far from being familiar with many producers around the globe!!
But that’s what’s great in wine, discovery is endless!! :slight_smile: