Per glass pricing for smaller wineries...

So a restaurant/winebar tends to want to buy the bottle from you as a producer for the same amount they can sell one glass for. So, in most cases that’s around $10-16/glass. For many smaller wineries this is at best break-even pricing for a bottle, maybe even a loss when you consider transport etc. But, it does get people to try the wines and might lead to people buying the wines down the line.

So, from some other producers I gather they see this as marketing cost. My question to the producers here: how much do you allocate to this? A very small amount or quite a lot? What have the results been - did it generate DTC/mailing list/wine club customers?

I am far from an expert on this, but I will happily share my results.

I don’t discount more than 5-10% to get BTG sales. There is one resort at which BTG sales has gotten me quite a few winery visits. I do believe that the other BTG programs build loyalty, but that is hard to measure.

Hope that helps.

Thank you Andrew. So, you discount an additional 5-10% on top of what you sell to distr/retailer for?

My discount is off of the wholesale price which is 2/3 of winery retail. I do not offer the discount on wines that are sure to sell out that season. I currently do not sell to a distributor.

I think it’s worth bending a bit if you’re not a well-known label. I think people will take a flyer with BTG wines that they might not on full bottles. And you hope some direct to consumer sales result.
Assuming it’s a 3 case or more drop, I knock 10% off the wholesale price. During a glut, that can be a non-competitive discount though. Wines that retail for twice what mine do will get slashed below mine for BTG just to move boxes in a not-so-obviously-discounted way.

Selling wines at or below cost with the hopes of gaining DTC customers is not a good strategy. If you want to get some BTG placements (which can help in other ways), find spots where you can still make it work out $ wise.

Many wineries use BTG sales to move wine and generate cash. If you don’t need to do this I don’t think BTG works for micro wineries.

if you are making wines with low sulphur additions i think by the glass could potentially backfire. if there is not a high turnover rate the bottle could be open for too long and could give people the wrong impression of your wine.

It sounds like you are selling direct to restaurants, Adam, but I can give you a distributor perspective, if that’s helpful.

For us, we are a small company ourselves, and so are in a similar position as a small winery in terms of what we can afford for BTG discounts. Our marketing budget is a rounding error in one of the big guy’s expense accounts. But by that same token, with some of the smaller domestic producers we work with, I typically don’t even ask them for a lower cost or depletion allowance for BTG, unless they come forward with the offer from the get-go.

The main case I make to on-prem buyers more or less goes: “It’s true, you can get Mega Brand X at a much better price because of deep on-prem discounting. If you need that slot to do that sort of work for you, then go with Mega Brand X. But if you want that slot to be where you showcase a fucking bad-ass wine from a little guy, well, this a great price and it’s as low as it can be already.”

There seems to be enough buyers out there who have a sense of the big picture, that they understand that sort of argument.

Whether or not my comments are much help for you right now with restaurant closures…well, that’s another story :slight_smile:

Thanks Matt!

Never got into any restaurants before this all happened! I have one small cafe/winebar that carries it and they do per glass for about $15 (or did, I should say), but I chalk those few bottles down to the marketing budget. Plus, the owner is a friend.

Which wine(s) are you trying to get by the glass, by the way? I checked out your site, and those are all pretty distinct options! Obviously off topic, but what is that Flame Tokay like?

I definitely think selling uncommon varietals gives you further edge in keeping prices where you need them to be. Fewer spots are looking to pour things like Mission etc, and fewer folks make them, so you’re not competing against hundreds of other options.

Well, these wines are better candidates at smaller wine bars where the clientele is primed to try something a little off the beaten track. AFWE crowd. Hipster crowd, as much as I hate the word. So, it’s a very small market. Here in Los Angeles, there are maybe 10-20 wine bars/restaurants that would fit this wine on paper. And maybe half of that in retailers. I was mainly focusing on the Mission for BTG.

Flame Tokay notes are apple, orange peel and a more savory tapenade kind of finish. I’m really happy with how it turned out. I had almost no expectations. The grapes came to me by pure chance. In fact, I’d never heard of Flame Tokay before I was offered them. Now I’m scrambling to find some to make a little bit more of it, but there isn’t anything to be had. It’s grape that has had almost zero demand for over a decade, so it’s not surprising.

I agree, your wines fit a niche that certain restaurants are particularly looking for, so it’s a matter of hunting down the right places. Despite being in SF, our biggest btg market was Los Angeles. SF has plenty of hipster restaurants, but frankly, they have no shortage of options and lean heavily towards Jon Bonne promoted labels. Despite having a distributor, our placements were from our connections there.

Btw, there are some great Oakland area shops that would love your wines, in case you aren’t already dealing with them.

Anyway, the crucial consideration using btg to get exposure is follow through: Is your brand something customers just see on the menu, and have already forgotten by the time the wine comes and that’s it? Is there a big easily viewable chalk board with all the wines listed, so people can remember your wine, take a pic, check out your site while still at the restaurant…?

Adam

I am not ITB and so this is coming from a consumer perspective - as others have stated, it would make sense only if you trust that the restaurant is going to properly position and promote your wine. Generally speaking, I wouldn’t be tempted to try wines made from the grapes you use but during the WB quarantine relief, I decided to buy from a lot of small wineries both to help out and to hopefully find some new/interesting wines. I bought a mixed case from you and after finishing the first bottle of LA MALINCHE, I ordered another case (and only have 4 left so expect another order in a couple of months). My point being, your wines are excellent but you there are many people like me who may be reluctant to stray from their known preferences without a nudge. Just being on the menu will probably not be enough.

Good point, Russell. It is not enough to just be on a menu (and now with all this, there is no menu to be on anyway). It will always be an uphill battle with outlier varietes, I don’t know what the solution is. But also, things change. Nobody knew Mourvedre from a hole in the wall just 10 years ago - now, from what I gather, quite a few producers are doing well with it.

And thanks again for buying and enjoying them!

Like I said in post 13. Like so many of ours did/do, your wines appeal to a niche. A typical customer at a typical restaurant isn’t going to be interested in trying your wines, and typical restaurants won’t be interested in carrying them. But, the right spots cater to the type of customer who are looking to try different, intriguing wines. You’re what they’re looking for. The same goes for wine shops and wine bars. Los Angeles was our top market. (Well, is, since Bryan still has current releases.)

major champagne houses do this so it must work. btg dom perignon is usually around $110 or so.