Coffee maker recommendations?

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Patrick Keigan
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Coffee maker recommendations?

#151 Post by Patrick Keigan » November 15th, 2017, 8:03 pm

Fairly fine, probably close to a coarse salt. Maybe I need to try to go a little finer and see what happens

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#152 Post by Jeff Twersky » November 16th, 2017, 6:36 am

Patrick Keigan wrote:Fairly fine, probably close to a coarse salt. Maybe I need to try to go a little finer and see what happens
When I first got the Kalita, I found instructions on Wrecking Ball Coffee's web site, and used that as a start. It took me a few times to adjust the grind. To my taste roughly 3:30 is the brewing sweet spot. The grind I use is a bit finer than sea salt.

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#153 Post by RichardFlack » November 16th, 2017, 6:08 pm

First an apology for probable laziness... I see this is a fairly long thread but I'm looking for some fairly specific help. If the question is already answered, my apologies.

I'm contemplating a new coffee maker, assuming that the kitchen reno budget does not spring a leak in the last couple of weeks. The criteria are first, good coffee, second looks and possibly does it come in red (Ok a cliche but it's a black and white kitchen, sort of), third not requiring degrees in physics or comp sci to operate. Oh, for brewed coffee, espresso is another matter. I like strong-ish coffee, mostly (occasionally milder), but not bitter / burnt / stewed so no Starbucks please.

So here's the first question. Is Moccamaster worth the money? (Versus say Cuisinar 14 cup in the budget dept). Pros and cons?
Second, am I right to be sceptical of Kitchenaid in terms of flavour? Yes it comes in red which cuisinart doesn't but for extra $$$.

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#154 Post by Patrick Keigan » November 17th, 2017, 6:29 am

To my taste roughly 3:30 is the brewing sweet spot. The grind I use is a bit finer than sea salt.
I adjusted my grind, and still draining out at 2:30, it is now sitting a bit finer than sea salt. I will take a look at the Wrecking Ball site and see if maybe my pour is to fast.

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#155 Post by Magnus Solhjell » November 21st, 2017, 2:59 am

RichardFlack wrote:
So here's the first question. Is Moccamaster worth the money?
I would say maybe. I had a Moccamaster for years until I went for pour over, but I still enjoy coffee from a properly cleaned Moccamaster. But I think a good grinder is more important than a good coffee maker, the difference between a decent grinder and a bad one is bigger than between a decent and a good coffee maker. So you might want to save on a coffee maker and splurge on a grinder. And make sure to rinse the coffee maker regularly.

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#156 Post by Ethan Abraham » November 21st, 2017, 4:30 am

Still pleased with my oxo. Good service too. The "showerhead" piece is not attached too tightly, and can somewhat easily fall into the grounds and then get thrown away by an unaware cleaning person...oxo just sent me a new one, no charge.

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#157 Post by RichardFlack » November 21st, 2017, 5:41 am

Magnus Solhjell wrote:
RichardFlack wrote:
So here's the first question. Is Moccamaster worth the money?
I would say maybe. I had a Moccamaster for years until I went for pour over, but I still enjoy coffee from a properly cleaned Moccamaster. But I think a good grinder is more important than a good coffee maker, the difference between a decent grinder and a bad one is bigger than between a decent and a good coffee maker. So you might want to save on a coffee maker and splurge on a grinder. And make sure to rinse the coffee maker regularly.
Ah. Interesting, thanks for the comment. My current grinder is Cuisinart burr grinder. Does that meet your "decent" criterion? I had not thought to replace it.

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#158 Post by Chris Foley » November 21st, 2017, 8:38 am

I'm currently shopping for my first burr grinder.
Looking on Amazon and starting with the low priced options first, I've found a manual grinder with ceramic burr that I like but don't want to spend 5 minutes every morning grinding 2 oz of beans.
Moving on to electric models, the under $100 options don't look that good when examining the details. I'm now thinking about the KitchenAid KCG0702CU which looks excellent. However, $200 seems like a lot to pay since I've never had a complaint about my $50 Krups blade grinder, which couldn't be simpler to use.
Any experience with this unit, or other preferred options?
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#159 Post by Chris S p i k e s » November 21st, 2017, 10:34 am

Chris Foley wrote:I'm currently shopping for my first burr grinder.
Looking on Amazon and starting with the low priced options first, I've found a manual grinder with ceramic burr that I like but don't want to spend 5 minutes every morning grinding 2 oz of beans.
Moving on to electric models, the under $100 options don't look that good when examining the details. I'm now thinking about the KitchenAid KCG0702CU which looks excellent. However, $200 seems like a lot to pay since I've never had a complaint about my $50 Krups blade grinder, which couldn't be simpler to use.
Any experience with this unit, or other preferred options?
The best grinders in the business for coffee:

https://www.baratza.com/product-category/grinders/

No affiliation, just a very happy customer and I love the fact that I can do my own maintenance and refurbishing if necessary. Great support!

(Espresso grinders are a different universe for the most part, but a couple of Baratza's grinders have a great reputation there too.)

The key to grinding is uniformity of the grind particles. Blade grinders do just the opposite.

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#160 Post by Magnus Solhjell » November 21st, 2017, 10:35 am

RichardFlack wrote: Ah. Interesting, thanks for the comment. My current grinder is Cuisinart burr grinder. Does that meet your "decent" criterion? I had not thought to replace it.
I would say that any burr grinder is (at least) decent.

I upgraded my grinder last year, and I was leaning towards the Baratza Virtuoso, but one of the baristas at my local coffee bar recommended a Sage which is the European version of the Breville Smart Grinder Pro and I am very happy with it. It was a noticeable upgrade from the grinder I had before, but whether the improvement was worth the cost is another matter..

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#161 Post by RichardFlack » November 21st, 2017, 10:53 am

Ok thanks. What would be your alternative recommendations for a drip coffee maker at, say, similar price to Moccamaster, and say, half that price (roughly). While the taste of the coffee and reliability are important, as is to some extent ease of use (by which I mean I dont want something what is awkward; but Im Ok with grinding and measuring etc and keeping things clean)... with a spiffy kitchen reno (modern style), Im also wanting something that looks good!

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#162 Post by Jason T » November 23rd, 2017, 12:47 am

+1 for Baratza. I've got the Encore and have been very happy. This after a lifetime of a Krupa blade grinder and then a few months with a Breville that weirdly locked up.

Dig the granularity in settings and the grind is wonderfully consistent. Have no idea what benefits I'd get from a better grinder, but this has definitely met my needs. Though I only need it for drip coffee- not currently doing espresso.
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#163 Post by alan weinberg » November 23rd, 2017, 9:11 am

may have locked up from a stone. Did you take it apart—the burr part? Love my Preciso from Baratza.

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#164 Post by RichardFlack » November 25th, 2017, 10:41 am

A novice question, if I may. I keep reading that glass carafe / hot plate is bad idea as the hot plates burn the coffee. Certainly with my current cuisinart, the coffee is not so good as when fresh, after an hour or so.
So why don't the manufacturers just dial the heat back a bit?
If coffee is kept consistently several degrees below the temperature it came out of the brewing at, wouldn't that be ok? Or is that too hot?
Put another way, have the hot plate mimic the temperature gradient of a thermal carafe.
Then you have the benefits of glass (lighter, you can see how full it is) without scorched coffee.
...
This is in context of possibly stepping up to a Moccamaster and trying to decide which version (glass or thermal).
Does the Moccamaster hot plate burn the coffee?
I'd say most of the time the coffee is drunk within the hour ( or less) but occasionally I do look for the third cup at about the two hour mark!

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#165 Post by Chris Foley » November 25th, 2017, 12:02 pm

Thanks for the Baratza recommendations. The Encore looks like it would fit my needs just fine.
However I'm still leaning toward the Kitchenaid. It has a kind of art deco look and I like that I can easily place my filter cone right below the outlet (instead of the glass jar) and let it grind my premeasured beans right into the filter.
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#166 Post by M. Sai » November 25th, 2017, 4:50 pm

Richard - if you warm the carafe before making coffee (fill it with hot tap water while you prep the beans), dump the hot water and start making coffee, temp holds pretty well for the first hour. They also a provide a different cap for the carafe that completely seals - versus the one used while brewing. If you swap to that after the machine is done, you'll get more time as well. I'm not a fan of hot plates (I didn't know that Technivorm actually did one) - at worst I'll just warm the last cup in the microwave.

Following up on your other questions about the Technivorm versus others - just make sure you get an SCAA approved brewer, which is only the Technivorm, Bonavita and Brazen last I looked. Those are the only machines that attain and stay at correct brewing temp. Get a decent burr grinder - but I've yet to see a major difference when using an expensive model for drip coffee.
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#167 Post by RichardFlack » November 25th, 2017, 8:09 pm

Many thanks. KBG 741 is the hot plate Moccamaster.

I believe this Kitchenaid KCM0801OB is also SCAA approved.

https://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/-[KCM08 ... KCM0801OB/

And a LOT cheaper. Looks a hot plate again though. Does any one know if it's any good.

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#168 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 10th, 2017, 10:12 am

Two days in a row...
IMG_3626.JPG
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#169 Post by RichardFlack » December 10th, 2017, 10:54 am

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:Two days in a row...
IMG_3626.JPG
Wow. The valve was blocked / didn't open? How old is coffee maker? ( the machine I mean lol).

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#170 Post by RichardFlack » December 10th, 2017, 10:57 am

Went with the Kitchenaid based on price (and quality / SCAA cert). Early results are good, I'll give more feedback after a couple of weeks. It's not being heavily used yet as the contractor is still occupying my kitchen!

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#171 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 10th, 2017, 11:15 am

Richard - this is our second unit, replacing the initial PoS Bonavita that did this overflow crap too often. This unit arrived here April 2016. I'll try descaling it and then it's garbage heap time.
Last edited by Glenn L e v i n e on December 10th, 2017, 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#172 Post by RichardFlack » December 10th, 2017, 11:18 am

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:Richard - this is our second unit, replacing the initial PoS Bonavita that did this overflow crap often.
That's too bad. Sounds like design or systemic QA issue.
What will your next machine be?

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#173 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 10th, 2017, 11:42 am

We aren't sure. May just go back to French press.
"Never lose sight of the fact that it is just fermented grape juice" - a winemaker and negotiant in Napa Valley, CA

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#174 Post by Chris S p i k e s » December 10th, 2017, 4:31 pm

Glenn, why not the Moccamaster by Technivorm? I'm sure you've considered it, but I can't remember why you went another direction.

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#175 Post by Chris Foley » December 10th, 2017, 8:10 pm

The only way I can see that happening is if a few grounds get into the cone (under the filter) when filling it, and then clog the drain hole when the water starts flowing.
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#176 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 10th, 2017, 8:24 pm

We clean the drain hole before every brewing using a small wire thru the plastic.
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#177 Post by Magnus Solhjell » December 11th, 2017, 2:04 am

Glenn L e v i n e wrote:We aren't sure. May just go back to French press.
Stay with (paper) filter if you care about your cholesterol levels.

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#178 Post by RichardFlack » December 11th, 2017, 6:14 am

Is coffee causative or a life style marker? I thought the evidence here was mixed. Sort of like the 2 glasses of red wine a day (but bad not good). I always thought that was a marker for discipline and affluence.

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#179 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 11th, 2017, 6:17 am

Magnus Solhjell wrote:
Glenn L e v i n e wrote:We aren't sure. May just go back to French press.
Stay with (paper) filter if you care about your cholesterol levels.


I generally don't but Melitta filters lower cholesterol?
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#180 Post by Magnus Solhjell » December 11th, 2017, 9:02 am

Coffee contains cafestol and kahweol which raises cholesterol, but paper filters remove them. There was a quite large study in northern Norway where men were encouraged to switch from steep to filter coffee and it lowered their blood cholesterol considerably: https://en.uit.no/prosjekter/prosjekt?p ... t_id=80172

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#181 Post by Al Ehrhardt » December 11th, 2017, 1:50 pm

I have a Technivorm Moccamaster and love it. IMO the best coffee I can make at home. Everyone that has it comments how great it is.

I also use their filters that are naturally whitened via a bleach-free, oxygen-based process. Also use a burr grinder and beans from a couple local roasters that are really fresh.

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#182 Post by RichardFlack » December 11th, 2017, 2:09 pm

This article https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... q-20058339 has similar conclusions to another which I read.
There may be a confounding of two things... elevation of cholesterol and elevated mortality.

Note the reference to correlation to smoking. I assume the Scandinavian study controlled for that, I think you quoted it as measuring the effect on cholesterol of in a certain cohort of a change in brewing method (and presumably no other changes in lifestyle or medications).

I'm not a doctor but I recall a similar type of issue when looking into cholesterol lowering drugs and saw that the mortality benefits were really only clear for those also with heart conditions.

I've discussed cholesterol with four doctors in the last few years and got five points of view.

Having said which, on the basis of "nothing to excess"it does seem to make sense to keep the coffee intake to three or less cups a day.

I think I'd far rather have two or three great cups of coffee than five cups inferior brew.

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#183 Post by Glenn L e v i n e » December 11th, 2017, 3:13 pm

My new office has a serious Espresso maker.

Big time.
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#184 Post by RichardFlack » December 11th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Magnus Solhjell wrote:Coffee contains cafestol and kahweol which raises cholesterol, but paper filters remove them. There was a quite large study in northern Norway where men were encouraged to switch from steep to filter coffee and it lowered their blood cholesterol considerably: https://en.uit.no/prosjekter/prosjekt?p ... t_id=80172
Interesting to note that the Kitchenaid Pourover (SCAA cert.) machine seems to be aimed more for paper filter than gold mesh. As in it does not come with a mesh and it's not yet clear if one would fit. It does come with four (yes four, count them) paper filters. Wonder if that's driven by coffee quality or lawyers?

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#185 Post by Robert M yers » December 27th, 2017, 4:52 am

Al Ehrhardt wrote:I have a Technivorm Moccamaster and love it. IMO the best coffee I can make at home. Everyone that has it comments how great it is.

I also use their filters that are naturally whitened via a bleach-free, oxygen-based process. Also use a burr grinder and beans from a couple local roasters that are really fresh.
Is there a reason to buy whitened filters? I'm all for doing it naturally if necessary, but is it?

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#186 Post by Mary Deem » December 30th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Are you set on a drip set up? If not, an espresso (now called moka) pot or a French Press both make a fabelous deep brew. I roast my own coffee still use the espresso pots that I grew up with. Please note that instructions for brewing in espresso/moka pots are useless.

I would suggest using a finer grind than is recommended for an espresso/moka pot. Don't just blindly fill the basket and the water to just under the steam release and hope fo the best. Treat it like any other coffee machine, and base your coffee to water ratio based on type of cofffee. roast, and grind.

If you want a pour over, the Clever Dripper does the job pretty well.

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#187 Post by alan weinberg » December 30th, 2017, 4:38 pm

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=131560&hilit=Coffee ... d#p2085356

a bunch of us here roast, Mary. I use a Behmor 1600+, am still debating a Bullet from Aillio.

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#188 Post by TimF » December 30th, 2017, 6:06 pm

Our Technivorm passed the decade mark this month. Still behaves as if it is brand new. Probably the best $225 I ever spent.
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#189 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » December 30th, 2017, 6:45 pm

Went looking for a new coffeemaker over the holiday. Thought we’d end up with something like a Technivorm Moccamaster, but bought a Jura A1 instead. More than I planned to spend, but we drink more coffee than wine and this machine is amazing. Really great coffee crema.

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#190 Post by Scott G r u n e r » January 3rd, 2018, 10:56 am

Still pretty damn happy with my moccamaster bought 4? years ago.
//Cynic

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#191 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 16th, 2019, 9:20 am

My Bonavita 8 cup coffee cup brewer stopped working this morning after no problems for 30 months.

Light went on, but no action and light goes off shortly. I think it may be because I never descaled. Could that cause it. Any tips to get it going again so I can descale?

Alternatively, in the same price range (under $200) what is the current recommendation on a coffee maker? Looks like the similar model is now only $130 on Amazon (BV1902DW, programmable).

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#192 Post by ybarselah » October 17th, 2019, 7:16 am

excellent deal on the moccamaster on drop fyi; not at all cheap, but damn impressive machine:

https://drop.com/buy/technivorm-moccama ... rer=KHHQTR
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#193 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » October 18th, 2019, 12:01 am

ybarselah wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 7:16 am
excellent deal on the moccamaster on drop fyi; not at all cheap, but damn impressive machine:

https://drop.com/buy/technivorm-moccama ... rer=KHHQTR
I'll never use anything else for filter coffee. Love mine.

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Re: Coffee maker recommendations?

#194 Post by SeanHarding » October 18th, 2019, 10:29 am

Anyone have recommendations for a decent quality, but COMPACT, grinder? I'm outfitting a second place which has a small kitchen. At my main house I have a Baratza grinder I like, but it's big. I'd like to find something quite a bit smaller for the new place, but I don't want to go back to the dark ages of a cheap blade grinder...

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#195 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » October 18th, 2019, 11:52 am

I am fond of the technvivorm as well.

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#196 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 18th, 2019, 5:36 pm

ybarselah wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 7:16 am
excellent deal on the moccamaster on drop fyi; not at all cheap, but damn impressive machine:

https://drop.com/buy/technivorm-moccama ... rer=KHHQTR
I ordered and it’s a great price ($230) but doesn’t ship until 11/15. I didn’t see where it was shipping from. Seems like a long time.

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#197 Post by Rajesh P a r i k h » October 18th, 2019, 6:57 pm

SeanHarding wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 10:29 am
Anyone have recommendations for a decent quality, but COMPACT, grinder? I'm outfitting a second place which has a small kitchen. At my main house I have a Baratza grinder I like, but it's big. I'd like to find something quite a bit smaller for the new place, but I don't want to go back to the dark ages of a cheap blade grinder...
Maybe try a hand burr grinder then if you want something smaller.

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#198 Post by Al Osterheld » October 18th, 2019, 8:35 pm

Yes, I think a hand grinder is the only compact option for something small and better than a chopper.

I've also been using a Moccamaster, one of the models with a thermal carafe. Amortized over the years I've used it, the extra cost seems pretty minor. Pour over is more time and effort than I want for morning coffee.

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#199 Post by ybarselah » October 19th, 2019, 10:27 am

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 5:36 pm
ybarselah wrote:
October 17th, 2019, 7:16 am
excellent deal on the moccamaster on drop fyi; not at all cheap, but damn impressive machine:

https://drop.com/buy/technivorm-moccama ... rer=KHHQTR
I ordered and it’s a great price ($230) but doesn’t ship until 11/15. I didn’t see where it was shipping from. Seems like a long time.
that's their general model at drop: they work directly with a vendor, mfr, etc., and offer the item as a pre-sell, usually capped at a certain volume for a short amount of time. at the end of the sale, drop charges its customers and places the total order with the vendor and everything ships out. i've found that most of my things arrive long before the estimate, but they do a good job of keeping everyone updated. prettycool model for specific things - everyone wins.
Yaacov (ITB)

Barry L i p t o n
GCC Member
GCC Member
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Joined: November 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Coffee maker recommendations?

#200 Post by Barry L i p t o n » October 19th, 2019, 10:41 am

Do the orders always get fulfilled? There FAQs had something on “unsuccessful run” which I didn’t understand.

Either way, thanks for the tip! $70 less than Amazon.

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