Cutlery Set <$350

My wife and I have been using a Calphalon knife set since we received it as a wedding gift 8 years ago. It’s time to upgrade, but I’m having trouble finding a set I like in the $300-400 range. I’ve looked a few 5-7 piece sets online - Wusthof Ikon and Shun Classic (may have been 4 piece) - are a few that I actually remember.

A couple details I’m struggling with:
-Carbon steel vs. high carbon stainless…Are these really synonymous or is one better than the other
-Japanese steel vs. German…I understand Japanese steel to be the harder of the two which has its benefits but also means its more difficult to maintain sharpness
-Am I wasting my money buying a cutlery ‘set’ as opposed to putting my own set together one piece at a time?

My wife does most of the cooking in our household and lately she has been saying the knives we have aren’t cutting like they used to, despite my using a sharpening tool not too long ago. SIDE NOTE - the fact that she doesn’t listen to me and puts them in the dishwasher can’t be helping the situation!

Appreciate any advice.

I prefer Japanese steel. They seem sharper to me out of the box and easier to sharpen. I wouldn’t buy a set as I think you get knives you don’t need. Spend your money on a good chef’s knife that is comfortable in her hand. Fill in with whatever $$ you have left over. If they are going to end up in the dishwasher, don’t waste your money on good knives

George

Take the knives and have them professionally sharpened. Shouldn’t cost more than $3-5/knife. See if she still complains about the knives.

Also, I’m not a Japanese knife guru, but I believe that if she ran them in the dishwasher they would rust.

Tell your wife that getting to have good knives is like getting to have a pet - if she can’t take care of them, she doesn’t get to have them!

“high carbon” steel is used to denote the purity of the steel. it doesn’t really mean much by itself unless someone is using “carbon” to differentiate a knife vs. “stainless” knives (which also have carbon, but also enough chromium to ensure stainlessness).

japanese knives are generally thinner and harder than German. the result is a lighter knife (in general).

sharpening your knives is very important. those “honing steels” with knife sets don’t really “sharpen” so much as “re-align”. for sharpening, either: 1) you learn to free-hand sharpen using a whetstone (that’s what i do), 2) you send it to someone to get sharpened (e.g. japaneseknifesharpening.com), or 3) you can buy an abrasive sharpening rod (e.g. a diamond steel)

I prefer the buy-one-at-a-time philosophy.

This is perhaps THE MOST IMPORTANT thing when thinking about buying kitchen knives. If your wife is the one who uses them, and if she puts them in the dishwasher, then there really isn’t a point in a dropping a lot of coin on fancy knives. It’s not worth the marital strife. It’d be like gifting a bottle of DRC to someone who’s just going to drink it the next day with leftover Chinese food (and not invite you). For us, I bought one chef’s knife for me (which obviously never goes in the DW), one chef’s knife for her (which is “the” one that she uses that doesn’t go in the DW), and the rest are el cheap-o. (We do have a nice paring knife that also doesn’t go in the DW).

Do people really put knives in the dishwasher?? It takes all of 10 seconds to wash, dry and put back

yes…I thought the same thing… [smileyvault-ban.gif]

the upside is so little…and the potential downside so large…doing that

Terry, thanks for the great info.

I have discussed this issue at length with representatives from a variety of major knife manufacturers, including Shun and Wurstoff. They have all told me that if you place a knife in a dishwasher in such a way that it touches nothing else and will not bang against anything else, the only potential damage from a dishwasher is to a nice wooden handle. That said, I wash my Shuns, Tridents, Henkels, Sabatiers and all the other stuff by hand. The only knife I throw in the dishwasher is a boning knife with a rubber handle that I keep razor sharp using whet stones.

Regarding getting a set vs buying one at a time, you (DK) have a set that you want to replace. You could use them a little longer while you learn the manly art of sharpening on these expendable knives, and add to/replace them one or two at a time as you go along.

There’s very little need for more than three knives, and very little need for more than one of them to be especially good. I’d advise spending accordingly.

Getting even 3 quality knives less than 350 total is not going to be easy. Buying any kind of “quality” set (assuming more than 3 knives) is going to be near impossible.

I think there are some options however depending on how serious you are at cooking.

My wife uses a 165 santuko, a 150 petty and a paring knife for all her knife work. She more or less WONT use anything else and we have a drawer full of knives.

I personally would go with a 210 gyuto, a 150 petty and a smaller knife (paring or 110 petty etc) if I could only have 3, and you could stay pretty close to 350 with a few makers. Wantanabe comes to mind, but also Jons Uraku knives may work (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin/gesshin-uraku.html)

Most of my knives are blue 1 or two carbon. I dont see all the fuss about the care required, I just wipe it down, set it on a placemat on the counter to fully dry and then throw it in the drawer the next trip through the kitchen. I had my son use one, and he put it in the knife drawer wet, and it took me all of 5 minutes to get the rust off when I found it.

I will say learning to really sharpen well makes all the difference in the world. No knife, no matter how much you spend is worth a darn once it gets dull, and they get dull faster than you would be willing to bet.

We cook a lot, we dont go out often, as we actually enjoy the cooking process and thin on average we get better food for the dollar at home. When I switched to quality 3 years ago, it made all the difference in the world. My cutco and henkles dont even compare in the same universe.

My real advice is spend all your budget on a very nice 210 gyuto, sharpen your old knives and wait till you can afford (or are willing) to buy a few more really good ones. This for instance is a very nice handmade knife that fits your budget Gesshin Hide 210mm White #2 Hon-Kasumi Wa-Gyuto - Japanese Knife Imports

what type of cutting board are you using? Also what type of sharpening tool?

I know we get geeky about mid to high end Japanese knives and custom made American knives, but I still take out my Forschner Chefs, paring, and boning knife quite often. Those three will run you less than $120 bucks on Amazon, and cut perfectly after they have been sharpened correctly. Comfortable too.

Got that right, Cary.

If the bar is so low (dishwasher), then the Cook’s Illustrated champs (Victorinox/Forschner) should be a great step up, particularly for the price on Amazon.

I use several, and my two Wusties seem to be getting flabby due to lack of use…

I have Henkels that I have had for a loooonnnngggg time- 8 inch chef, paring, boning knives. Have a couple others- but these 3 I use all the time. These still hold an edge and work great.

Yup, I think I’d tell her the knives will have to do, because you aren’t buying new knives that will end up in the dishwasher,

Yeah, the knife in the dishwasher is a tough one to get over.

With that said, I would recommend probably one good knife (right now at least) that has a wood handle that can be ruined in the dishwasher. It doesn’t really matter which brand at this point, maybe any of the Miyabi stainless lines or some other cheaper J-knife.

The reason I say this is that when a person has a good knife and they realize how sharp and useful the tool can be, they might (just maybe) learn to treat the knives better and move on from the ‘dishwasher approach’ to knife care. I really wouldn’t invest to much at this point if she is the primary cook and tends to put blades in the washer.

Also, by having a wood handle, if she ever ignores proper knife care and puts it in the dishwasher, it will ruin the knife handle (if stainless) and entire knife if carbon – and that might be just the incentive needed to change ways. She will then go back to the dishwasher knives and….whoaaaaa WTF?? These suck.

You could also get some pretty cheap yet sharp knives from Japan Woodworker. The tosagata lines are rustic, and the blades often need some work, but they will be sharper out of the box than anything she has. But they are cheap and you won’t lose much if they get mistreated. Below is one example.

My wife actually likes the santoku tosagata, but there are other styles too. A nakiri might be a good option too. Don’t get me wrong, these knives are nothing fancy, but they are good knives for the price. I would also probably leave the protective laminate on the knife at least at first. Between that and the KU (rustic) finish on the knife, it will prevent most rust unless it is left wet or with food on it for a really long time.

That’s what I got I fuss. It all depends upon if she wants to learn better care, but sometimes a better knife is just what is needed.

k.

I would focus less on the dishwasher issue. She knows that a new set of knives would need to be washed by hand.

That’s good :slight_smile: Does she care what style of handle it has? A 210mm gyuto/chef knife and a 120-150mm petty/utility knife is a pretty versatile combo. Frankly, you could pick up any combination of the Japanese Chefs Knives Hattori line or the CarboNext knives for under $350 and still have some cash for a paring knife. The CarboNext are very inexpensive and the blades will cloud up but will resist rust for the most part – but they do take a bit more care. I haven’t used these knives, but I have a similar knife in the same steel. They were the budget knife rage for knife nuts several years ago. The CarboNext also has an extra sharpening service too for a minimal price. Btw, the classic shun paring knife is pretty highly thought of too. These can be found for around $80-90.

k.

210mm CarboNext Gyuto w/sharpening $115
210mm JCK Hattori Gyuto $227
125mm or 150mm CarboNext Petty w/sharpening approx. $75
120mm or 150mm JCK Hattori Petty $144