Help me Redesign my Kitchen

Preamble: We had a HUGE leak in our kitchen and had to tear it out. We hated the kitchen anyway, but now, after a long period of remediation, dealing with other stuff, and living for over a year in a makeshift kitchen with a cheap wooden island, limited counter space made of plywood with the sink duct-taped in, we are finally getting ready to put in The Dream Kitchen. I used to work as a cook before doctoring, so I’ve got my opinions. Curious as to the thoughts and collective wisdom of my Fellow Berserkers.

We are leaning towards a Rangetop with a separate double oven stack. I am going 60" likely with a 24" griddle. I like having drawers directly underneath me to function as a “speed rack” for often used spices, implements, cookware etc.

  1. Am I stupid? Should I just do a double full size oven underneath?

  2. Wolf does not make a 60" cooktop. I am leaning towards Bluestar (cooked on Bluestar and Garland in my restaurant days). Any reason I should consider another manufacturer?

  3. 24" griddle and the rest burners. Any reason to consider any other set up? I never cooked at a restaurant with a French Top.

  4. If you could build your dream kitchen (or if you have), any specific “oh, I should have done this” or “I did this and it was the best thing I ever did”? Any tips and thoughts are welcome. Feel free to PM me as well!

Cheers,
Noah

friend of my wife says her dream house has no kitchen. Good luck—I’m no help.

How often do you cook meals that need 6 burners?

Use a removable griddle instead of a flattop that occupies prime real estate. Maybe you miss it, but I’d rather have more flexibility and counter space. That’s what fills up when I’m staging.

Double oven w separate cooktop is the way to go.

If your house is not newish or tiny, it’ll breathe a lot. So CFM fan limitations (building code) are meaningless from an actual makeup air standpoint. I’d try to oversize the vent.

Bluestar is fine. It wears ok. You’ll go through stove igniters. I would not spring for their ovens. Mix in a matching double oven from a mainstream manufacturer’s “culinary” line. You’ll get better calibration, better fit quality and you’ll save a bit of coin.

Stainless sink in my opinion. Ease of cleaning.

When I redid the kitchen in my old condo the best decision I made was rollout drawers in the cabinets.

Also, a friend had a pull out pantry which I coveted for years (floor to top of cabinetry thin pull out with access from both sides).

As I’m sure you know venting is one of the most important decisions.

  1. No way. Do you want to have to bend down every time you use the oven or look in it? Wall ovens is the way to go. It’s also nice if you’re cooking a large meal and have someone assisting you a bit – you won’t need to move away from the stove if someone it putting something in or out of the ovens.

  2. I haven’t used either of those brands, but they are all reputable. Any decent modern rangetop should be able to give you very high heat, but I’d be more interested in one that could do a very low, precise simmer. I love my Monogram 36" (so puny, I know) cooktop, as the double and triple ring burners allow my to precisely go from a simmer so low that I can melt chocolate chips on a paper plate with out burning the plate to very intense heat for great, quick searing.

  3. The griddle on my 36" cooktop is removable (although very, very heavy), and I like it that flexibility (although, I’ve almost never removed it in the year I’ve had it). However, if you’re going with a 60" rangetop that will presumably still have 5 - 6 burners in addition to the griddle, I don’t think you’ll need to remove yours. I love the griddles for when I have a lot of company over and I’m making a lot of steaks/burgers/etc. at once or for when I have people sitting on the other side of the peninsula and I can Benihana it up.

  4. The best thing I did when redoing my kitchen recently (from a fairly out dated and middle of the road kitchen that existed when I bought the house) was get a combi-steam oven (Miele, but I’m sure Wolf and Gaggenau would be great as well). This isn’t really a secret, but a silent dishwasher is wonderful too, however, after a certain db rating, paying for further reduction is probably a waste.

Seems like I have a contrary opinion in that we used to have a dual fuel 60" wolf. Something like one of the ones in the below link. It was the best kitchen appliance we ever owned. Yes, one needs to bend over to use the oven. We had the griddle which was quite nice. We sold that house or we would still have it.

Key thing to strive towards is the infamous “work triangle” in the kitchen. The basic layout of the sink, fridge, and work/cooking surfaces are all key to a well functioning kitchen and dare I say happy marriage :slight_smile:

I have yet to use my griddle that’s built into the wolf. It’s been 7 years. I wonder if it even works.

Chris - I’m cooking on 4-5 burners all the time, and if I had more space to keep things warm, would make my life even easier. I would say I’ve got several pots’ worth of stuff on the stove at least once a month if not more, and would hope for even more often if I had a kitchen that could sustain it.

Alan - you sound like my wife. Except she wants a beautiful white kitchen that looks beautiful and contains no food because its dirty and no cookware or appliances because they’re unsightly.

Jay - what kind of pull out pantry cabinet? Show me a link?

Jordan - The bluestar line has a removable griddle, but those things are only 12" and I really want the 24". I think I would use it as much as the regular burners. The removable ones sit up a little and I am unsure if the heating is as even. Anyone with experience here? I have a big lodge cast iron 2-burner griddle and it’s a piece of shit.

John - totally with you on kitchen triangle. This will be difficult for us with our layout limitations, so I may try to get past it with either refrigerator drawer or lowboy adjacent to the sink and range…

Anyone with refrigerator drawers?

Fu - If you can’t corner the Northern Rhone market with a griddle, what use is it? :wink:

The heating on my the removable griddle on my not as high end Monogram cooktop is quite even, except for close to the edges. I think this is due largely to the very heavy and dense quality of the cast iron griddle.

However, like I said, since your rangetop will be so large, I think you have room for a fixed griddle (where as, I like the ability to remove mine on my much smaller 36" cooktop).

It was something like this:

I went through a major home remodel about 6 years ago. My kitchen was a big piece of the expense since I love to cook.
Things I love:

  1. Capital Stove - I have the 6-burner Capital Precision stove. No griddle. Happy to have no griddle - I use a cast iron portable griddle if needed. No electronics other than electronic ignition and a light and convection fan in the oven.
  2. Stone counter-top - I have some beautiful Vermont granite.
  3. Glass brick backstop behind the stove and sink - makes things easy to wash. I can use a razor blade to scrape caked grease off.
  4. Big Vent-A Hood over the stove. Powerful; glad I have it. Easy to take down in order to clean. Won’t say it is easy to clean; grease never is.
  5. Big pull out drawers for my pots and pans.
  6. Pantry - My carpenter built a closet pantry - floor to ceiling with a wooden work surface inside. Holds most of the appliances in addition to all the dry goods. Only items on counter are espresso machine and toaster.

Things I would change or do differently:

  1. Dishwasher has a handle that protrudes a bit and is a small annoyance as the counter area above the dishwasher is a significant prep zone.
  2. Separate wall oven. I only have the oven in the stove. Wish there was a separate oven, particularly for holidays.
  3. Wood cabinets - I have white wooden cabinets. I like the brand and the quality. Sometimes I think I might have preferred just the natural wood instead.

Good luck. Sorry to hear about the water damage but at least now you get to have some fun and plan your new kitchen.

Two ovens.

Two big deep sinks.

More counter space than 3 families need.

A warming drawer. Greatest invention evah. In fact, get two.

https://www.google.com/search?q=warming+drawer&client=safari&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiR6eX02avkAhUsneAKHdL2CKgQ_AUIEigC&biw=1216&bih=789

Why the warming drawer? Explain

Personally, I find that one of my ovens serves quite well as a warming drawer almost whenever I need it.

To keep things warm (plates, food, sauces, whatever). Many ovens don’t go low enough, but you do want it >140°F (the minimum ideal serving temp, as well as safe). Plus I want to cook in my oven. Makes things much more convenient when you are doing a lot of things at once.

I mainly find warming drawers invaluable for warming plates before serving

Carrie wanted a home commercial kitchen so I added on 12 by 20 feet to accommodate it. The 14 foot center island has a 6 burner with grill Thermador Home Commercial gas cook top at one end. A deep/wide sink with extendable faucet is next to the cooktop and easily handles stock pots. The remaining island area is for prep and a slow cooker. Two Dacor restaurant width convection ovens are stacked in the wall cabinet directly across from the island prep area. I also have cupboard storage for all of Carries restaurant pans, stock pots, pots and pans. I have a second, (main) sink with two compartments in the wall side across from the cook top. Both sinks have one horse power garbage disposals. The Sub Zero oversize refrigerator/freezer is built in to cabinetry adjacent to the pantry at the north end of the kitchen directly across from the prep area on the island. Our original dishwasher was an Asko Asea. All purchased a built in 1991/1992. The dishwasher and both garbage disposals have been replaced. I designed it to give Carrie working room with inviting space on the “out side” of the island, so friends and family would stay out of Carrie’s work area. Carrie’s family is notorious for getting under foot in the kitchen. Her two sisters redid their kitchens with islands that keep everybody out of the way of the chef.

I designed a galley kitchen for a friend who wanted a limited kitchen since the kids were gone and they wanted the extra space for the dinning/grand room. Galley kitchens are very efficient when only one person does the cooking and everybody else stays the hell out of the kitchen.

Needs differ. I find no use at all for warming drawers. I’m +1000 on providing maximum ventilation. Impossible to overdo, but consider noise when exploring options.

One thing I wish we had is a water spigot directly next to he stove top, and if space is available, a sink basin.

We did 1/3 of our countertops in stainless, I wish we would have done at least 2/3rds. So much better for real life use than the stone.

I wanted a griddle, but didn’t want to lose the space on 48”. I’ve found a cast iron griddle works just fine when I need it.

Your sinks can’t be too big.

I wish we had built a small under counter fridge for beverages. They take up so much room in the regular fridge.

Doesn’t matter what appliances brands you buy, they all are going to break down…

We recently built a house, mostly so we could have our dream kitchen. Two things I would suggest:

  1. if you have a cook top rather than a stove, make sure it’s somewhere you can still have a pot filler. I’ve seen people put their cook tops in an island and decide they can do without the pot filler. Every one has regretted it. I think it’s essential for anyone who actually cooks.

  2. all under-counter storage should be drawers, no cabinets. Under the sinks is an exception, of course. Cabinets below counters are a royal PITA. Drawers are so much better for storage and access.

Most other things are mostly a matter of preference and your particular needs - I have no use for a griddle, and you probably don’t need a dedicated wok burner, for example - but the two above are universal, I think.

One other thing we have that I love love love is a wood covered magnetized strip on the wall for our workhorse knives. The wood surface removes the metal-on-metal problem, and the convenience can’t be beat. Plus it’s very attractive.

Enjoy the process! Happy to discuss our experiences.