Awards/Mileage Redemption Help

My wife and I are planning a trip to Italy next summer to celebrate turning 40 and our 15th wedding anniversary.

I’ve been stockpiling credit card/airline points over the last couple years and am looking for some advice as to the best way to go about redeeming flights and hotels.

Rough idea of desired travel itinerary:
PHX to FLR (First or Business)
4 nights in Florence
3-4 nights in Portofino/Cinque Terre
GOA or FLR to PHX (First or Biz)

Here is what I have to work with:
-American Airlines: ~300k AAdvantage miles
-American Express: ~400k Membership Rewards

I did a very brief search on AA for some random dates next summer and found business class to FLR for 115k R/T per person, plus around $1,200pp in taxes/fees. I believe there are ways to redeem AA miles on other OneWorld partner airlines that may offer better schedules or amenities, but nothing besides AA metal came up in my search (maybe it’s too early yet?).

On the hotel side, I’m more concerned about redemptions in Florence than in Cinque Terre/Portofino given the latter is mostly smaller B&B types that aren’t part of large hotel programs. We typically stay at Marriott properties (and I do have some Bonvoy points to burn too if needed), and have always fancied the StR in Florence, but I’m willing to convert my MR points to other hotel programs if the properties or redemptions are better.

Any advice or guidance on where to get more info or where to start in my planning would be greatly appreciated.

When exactly are you going?

The best play is to transfer Amex Rewards to Iberia Plus 1:1 MR to Iberia Avios points. But your account needs to be open 90 days to do that, and the award seats for IB get snapped up quickly between 12 months and 11 months ahead (when it’s only available to IB Plus members, then at 11 months, some availability on those flight on American). At 11 months, you can use your AA miles, and they will be 57.5k plus fees that are significantly lower than flying on BA. Depending on peak/offpeak, you could be getting them directly from IB for less miles.

  1. Open up an Iberia Plus account ASAP, so you can transfer MR points 90 days after (if you see availability, transfer is very quick).
  2. Get a free trial to Expertflyer, and you can a) search but also b) put in alerts that will send you an email if availability opens on something you want.
  3. In the meanwhile, if you can swing the $$, book those pricey BA flights on AA. Lock them up, and if something better comes along on AA or IB metal, you can cancel without penalty and get miles and $$ back 100%.
  4. I’ve been looking for returns from Italy with everyone for June 7, I’m too late for IB. So I locked up a pricey BA flight and will contue to monitor. But that’s out of LAX, might be more IB availabilty out of other airports.

I wouldn’t hold your breath for a reduction soon in next summer’s AA awards and they are sky high now. When bookings don’t materialize (perhaps by December) they might lower them.

Not sure if you have hotel status, there is some (me included) who will go the Westin across the square from the St. Regis as I feel more likely to get an upgrade - a bigger fish in a smaller pond vs. being against the big $$ clients at the St. Regis. However, without status, if the size of the room is adequate at the St. Regis, the base room would likely be much higher and that could be the way to go. I’ve always stayed at the Westin Excelsior, and love it, gotten astounding upgards, but not sure how they treat those without hotel program status. I think both are in a fabulous location.

Genoa is gritty and fabulous - where pesto was invented! Fabulous food, lot’s of history and some amazing old palazzo’s. To me, I always prefer open jaw trips - why drive back to Florence when Genoa is as close or closer and something new to see. And it’s definitely worth 2-3 hours in Pisa on the way from Florence to Genoa, the leaning tower is really something to see if you haven’t (and the other buildings on the main square too). And you can do all this by train if you don’t want to bother with a car (including the stopoff). A car is useless inside Florence and while exploring the Cinque Terre.

1 Like

AA miles across the Atlantic are tough. AA is stingy with their own seats. There are usually a ton of availability with BA but those have massive fuel surcharges. In general try to avoid the UK as a transit point/layover as that is where the heavy surcharges are levied as taxes. As mentioned Iberia could be a good option too and yes get that account open for 90 days.

For the future - finding AA availability is tough but South/Central America, Africa and and the Pacific area are better for AA miles. Europe is a bit weaker just given their partnerships and the reliance on BA and the costs involved using points for a BA flight.

I usually work backwards - given I am in the NYC area I have JFK/Newark for international flights but I’ll look at the destination airport and figure out who flies there then figure out if any of those are direct from NYC or where I need to connect. So see who is flying into Florence and figure out how you can get there then figure out airlines/partnerships, etc.

AMEX has a partnership with Aeroplan and Aeroplan has a lot of agreements with airlines, so may be wise to create an Aeroplan account and search via Aeroplan. You can also look at Delta/KLM/Air France and their joint ventures.

I’ve been traveling globally the last 10 years on points and have had a lot of success. Though I am noticing for 2022 12 months out less airlines are posting schedules. I think they are waiting to a bit closer in to launch schedules especially to places that are seen as more of a tourist destination vs a business destination. Just my two cents. Usually 10-11 months in advance you can see a ton of options but lately I am seeing less and less and I just have a feeling its due to COVID and airlines being a bit more gun shy to post an itinerary for 11 months out for leisure route.

Thanks Barry. I might not be following 100%, but are you saying that if I have an Iberia account, I can leverage my AA miles to book via OneWorld alliance, but if not, I could txfr MR points instead? Turns out I have had Iberia acct for many years, so shouldn’t be an issue.

Obviously my preference would be to use AA miles for airfare and save the MR points for hotel to minimize cash out of pocket

You can use AA miles to book on Iberia thru AA site or booking agents on the phone but you cannot make AA miles into Iberia Avios miles. Need the availability thru AA booking engine

Agree execpt for a minor detail. Transiting through LHR (i.e., less than 24 hours) doesn’t attract the tax (APD). It’s flying BA TATL that causes a different fee. Stop off in London (i.e., greater than 24 hours) and fly BA, and you’ll get hit with both. The BA charge is the carrier surcharge (used to be called fuel surcharges until they were sued over misleading advertising). My favorite TATL routing to the West Coast, other than a non-stop, would be BA from Europe to LHR, and then AA LHR-LAX on the 77W. Neither APD or carrier surcharge is levied in that particular scenario.

It’s a departure tax that’s levied. So if the transit is less than 24 hours, no tax. (Supposedly even if on separate tickets, although that requires extra work).

Going to from US to London to Brussels and back is cheaper than US to Brussels to London and back because it’s a departure tax, and if you don’t depart LHR on a long haul flight, you dont pay.

(Once again, two things are in play, the departure tax levied by the UK goverment, and the carrier surcharge levied by BA on their TATL awards).

This link is important. oneworld Members: Airlines In The oneworld Alliance | oneworld Consider flying to HEL on Finnair, then continue on to Florence. You may want to book a positioning flight to JFK, then check availability of Finnair. Think out of the box when booking award travel.

1 Like

MR redemption is poor for hotels - are you using it as statement credit? The only bank points that transfer well are Chase Ultimate Rewards to Hyatt. If you want Marriott points, get a Marriott card (Bonvoy Brilliant or a lower fee Amex or Chase card). Iberia has a) more availability for it’s own members, and more importantly, availability a month earlier (12 months vs. 11) and b) often is less miles. For example, they price Madrid-Tel Aviv as intra Europe, but with lie flat seats.

I wouldn’t take the bad rate of either transfering MR points to Hilton or Marriott, nor the poor cash redemption. Unless you don’‘t think you’ll want to go to Europe again and know you don’'t need those MR pojnts. Your best shot if it is still more than 11 months out is to check out Iberia.
Whatver you do, don’t book partner awards with the Iberia Plus program other than BA. If it’s not IB or BA, the mile award is non-refundable.

How did you get your MR points? If you have a platinum card you have access to FHR hotels with a 200 credit

Agreed MR used on hotels is usually a poor choice.

If you are open to positioning flights to NYC (or another major gateway) you’ll have a lot more options though you’ll need to use a day or so of vacation to give ample time for any delays/issues since it’s not thru ticketed. Pros and cons of course.

If there is a flight you find but no award seats are available sign up for expert flyer - pay for a monthly premium account - and get alerts when award seats pop up.

Though again 11 months in advance I assume only a fraction of flights to Florence are posted and as time goes on you’ll see more options. Florence Airport - Wikipedia — notice some of those seasonal routes and more can always pop up based on forecasted demand

Signed up for Premium Expert Flyer account and it spit out a sample itinerary for June of next year:

PHX-LHR (AA)
LHR-MAD (IB)
MAD-FLR (IB)

When I search same dates on AA website, this doesn’t come up (nothing even remotely similar even). I’m still just playing around trying to understand options, but assuming this is what we wanted to do, which airline would I contact to book such a reservation using AAdvantage/Avios?

IF you use your AA miles would contact AA because you have AA miles. IF you took your Amex points you could transfer them to Avios and then call BA or Iberia (its confusing, they both use Avios as their point currency but under different programs) and book the trip.

Do you see LHR > MAD and MAD > FLR on the Iberia website for the given dates? If so, maybe call AA and feed them all the flight numbers. just say I want to book this itinerary (as listed above) and spoon feed them the flight #s. I picked a random day in June and there are 3 flights that leave LHR to get you to Madrid in time to get Madrid > FLR with varying layovers in Madrid (~1-3 hours).

Another note - on the AA website, make sure you are in the “advanced” search part and make sure “All Airlines” are picked vs just AA.

And when using Expert Flyer you can see if any award seats are even available on those legs before calling AA to ask them to book in you in the seats. I am not 100% sure if Iberia gives all their award seat inventory to partners (AA).

Also do not sleep on Aeroplan - though its not business class - I pulled up a random date in June (14th) and you can fly PHX > ORD > MUC > Florence in just 16.5 hours for 55,000 points plus $70 CAD. So there may be a day where they have some business class availability and it opens up United/Lufthansa as possibilities. I know you want to use your AA miles but they are just tough to use with Europe and MR points on hotels is just a bad conversion which is why I am trying to show a few other options.

I cannot help you with the fight issue, but I spent 4 nights in Florence for my honeymoon (6 years ago). We spent 2 nights at the St. Regis and 2 Nights at the Four Seasons. The St. Regis is in a great location walking distance to Ponte Vecchio. Rooms were large and the hotel had a great vibe. The staff was very friendly and the hotel was very clean. They sabered Champagne every evening and had a great happy hour.

The Four Seasons in Florence may have been the best hotel I’ve stayed in definitely top 3. The service was impeccable. It is in a former convent. The grounds were gorgeous. The room came with a guided tour of the Accademia and some other parts of town.

If choosing between St. Regis and Westin go St. Regis. If you have a few extra Euros to spend, treat yourself to the four seasons for a few nights.

1 Like

If that itinerary is available, figure out the connection in LHR to FLR via BA. the route through Madrid may not be needed, it’s the transatlantic that’s the issue.

If you arrive be too late to make the connection, consider reversing the itinerary if flying into Genoa is a better connection.

Then, as Eric says, spoon feed the desired routing to the AA agent. Do not book an iBeria award on AA metal - can’t get the miles back if you change/cancel (even for a fee).

1 Like

I know you want to use your AA miles but people are saying MR are better for the type of flights you want.

Lots of bonus transfers now to make using MR even more enticing.

Thanks, saw this the other day. Seems like I could make MR to hotel more advantageous given the 30% bonus on Bonvoy. 5 nights at StR Florence for 300k MR points seems like a good use of points considering the hotel is generally $1k USD per night

Even with the bonus, it would be considered a poor value… 300 MR reward points would translate into more than 5 RT business class awards on Iberia. You could easily earn 300k Marriott points or more by taking out 4 credit cards and meeting the spend requirements.

If you want hotel points, put your spend on a hotel card. If you charge a dollar on an amex card and transfer you get 1 Marriott point (absent bonus). If you charge on an Amex cobranded Marriott card, you get 2 Mariott points.
Think of Amex points being worth around 1.5 to 1.7 cent (commonly valued at the high end of the range by bloggers). Marriott points are pretty much worth .7 cents each. Airline miles such as IB more like 1.5 cents

Not disputing that it’s generally best to use hotel branded cards for hotel points (I also have Amex Bonvoy card that I’ve used for some great redemptions in the past), but if I can turn 300k MR into 400k Bonvoy points and then into 5x nights at StR Florence at value of $5k USD, aren’t I effectively getting the optimal value on MR points then? ($5,000 / 300k = 1.67 cents per MR). Again, if I didn’t have a gazillion AA miles to burn, my preference would be to convert MR to airfare, but to me this seems like the best way to book a trip for next to no out of pocket cost.

No, 1.7 is the “buy points” benchmark price. You are getting a little less than they are worth from a buy perspective.

Do the math on 5 RT J tickets and compare. Of course availability is better at hotels but I’d pretty good for availability in their own program.

If this is your only trip you are going to take in the next 5 years, sure , blow them all.

Also, maybe you are happy in coach. 400k AA miles is not all that much for international biz class travelers (3.5 RT s)

PS I stay often the the Westin as the suite upgrades are better for those with status. Exact same location. If comparing base rooms, I’m sure St Regis is better.

Age old question in the points “game” - get the best value from your points, or get the flight/hotel you want because you want it even if it is a lesser value
there is no wrong way

infrequent point users tend to just want the flight/hotel they want regardless of the “value”. point “enthusiasts” try to get the most bang per point.

1 Like

Did you find availability for your dates? Don’t dally, IB awards using g AA miles get taken very quickly when made available (11 months out). You may not find anything palatable on AA metal.