Return to Northern Italy

Hello, looking for input on our return to Italy! Flying to Milan and returning from Milan, with plenty of time in between. So far, the plan is to land in Milan, rent a car and then head to Alba (never been), Genoa (never been, return the car), Cinque Terre (never been), Florence (there in 2005), Bologna (2005), Venice (2018), Verona (2018), and back to Milan (to leave, not really to visit as thus far I’ve not heard much really good about it). I’d really appreciate suggestions on places to eat and things to see besides the usual sites, any great winery visits, and thoughts about how many days to stay in each of Alba, Genoa, and Cinque Terre. And thoughts on Milan.

Many thanks in advance! [thankyou.gif] [cheers.gif]

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If you aren’t going to Bolzano and the Dolomites, you’re doing it wrong.

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If you are going to Bolzano and the Dolomites, it’s technically Italy, but it’s Austria. So while I enjoyed the area, I prefer Italian Italy, and I do it right.

Genoa is very underrated. This is the birthplace of pesto, and the level of cuisine (prepandemic) was pretty high. Also, Genoa was one of the world’s most powerful cities in the 12th century, and has a nice legacy of world heritage sites right in the city Genoa's Unesco World Heritage Sites. Three nights is good.

Cinque Terre - Hard to answer the number of days without knowing more. With 9 stops, it would be a month long or more in total for me. How many days to you want to walk along the ocean on nice but challenging hikes, or visit cute tiny towns by train? Since for me, vacation is relaxation, and I savor not being in cars. You don’t use your car in the cinque terre- I’d say 4 to 5 days. But because it’s on the road to Genoa, you could do it in as little as two nights, which would give you enough time to walk the lovers walk at the south end, stop in a couple of towns and have your meal in Vernazza (my favorite of the 5). For me, it’s not an “activity” oriented place, but it’s to savor La Dolce Vita.

Haven’t been to Alba, spent time in Piemonte though. It’s a gorgeous area, each town unique. I’d say 4 nights to see the key towns if you want to get a feel for the communes.

I love Milan. The only city in the world where I like to shop. Two works by Leonardo available to see, and the food and happy hour culture is great. That being said, I wouldn’t drop other destinations to fit it in. I do wonder why you return to Milan when you could return from Venice and save backtracking (When I last went in and out of MXP, I went from Bellagio to an airport hotel rather than dealing with city center for a short stop).

Given my driving skills, I don’t like to hop in a car after a TATL red-eye, so if you start off two nights in Milan to acclimate, you’ll get to have a taste. Buy Sistine Chapel tickets as soon as you have your airline tickets if they are available. (Castello Sforzesca for the other Leonardo, and the Pinacoteca di Brera for classic art). Navigli area for happy hour.

If you aren’t averaging at least 3 nights per city, you are too rushed for my tastes.

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Make an appointment at Elio Grasso in Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo. It’s a lovely property down a farm lane. They’re known for their reds, but you’ll be pleasantly surprised by their inexpensive whites.

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Why fly into Milan if you don’t want to visit? Fly into Torino and fly out of Bologna or Venice if you really want to visit there. And if you don’t have a reason to stay in Alba, stay in the smaller towns like Serralunga, La Morra, Neive or Treiso, you’ll get much more local character. I’m someone that likes the smaller places and not the “famous” history or big cities.

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Is Quebec Canada? I think it is. Aside from that, the Dolomites are gorgeous, well worth a visit and if you don’t want the sound of German to be a buzzkill to your dolce vita, just stay in the provinces of Trentino and Belluno, neither of which has more than a handful of German speakers (unlike Alto Adige/Südtirol where Bolzano is). Please feel free to tell the residents of Cortina d’Ampezzo they are in Austria while enjoying the beautiful Dolomites. They’ll love it.

I just want to check how long you have for this 9 location trip? That might influence how many days we suggest for each.
Also, what time of year are you planning this? Depending on the time of year we might suggest more or less time in the cities.

Finally what excites you about Italy / what are your most memorable experiences there? That can really help us tailor suggestions to what appeals to you, not just what appeals to us.

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That certainly tallies with our experiences in Trentino, with only one person in Molveno speaking solely in German (behind the counter of the tabaccheria / giornali (newsagent) on Piazza San Carlo). They seemed to be making a point in doing so rolleyes . Everyone we encountered in Trento spoke Italian. I suspect there are plenty of multilingual people there, but Italian very much the common language. The food is much more of a crossover.

Thank you very much for the responses thus far! To answer a few questions, it will be a five week trip, so I think it’s enough time, and we rarely spend less than 3 or 4 nights anywhere. Flying in and out of Milan because we have done so in the past, it makes for a nice big circle route, I prefer to stay on all UA flights, and perhaps now is the time to stay a few days in Milan itself. We love staying in towns that have more than a few local and authentic restaurants to choose from, nice shops, and history everywhere, and we also regularly visit wineries everywhere. We tend to walk all over. The trip is this April and early May. I have posted dozens of restaurant reviews (Italy, France, Spain) over the years in this forum and we enjoy ourselves wherever we go! [cheers.gif]

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Given the amount of time you have, I would definitely include a 3-4 night stay at one of the N. Italian lakes, be it Como, Iseo, Garda or somewhere smaller.

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Hi Andrew
5 weeks certainly gives decent time to experience the cities, though after a while you might get frustrated by another round of packing, checking out, transfer, checking in and unpacking. The sections when you’ll have the car should be fine, but those involving public transport other than taxis can cause that frustration. Indeed with a car the option of a road trip element can come into play, perhaps using the excellent agriturismo farmstays as nightly bases.

Milano Malpensa not my favourite airport, but what you know often makes it better, plus whichever flights give you the best departure / return airport, plus the best timed flights, definitely factors into any decision. It’s not much further than Torino Caselle airport, though I very much prefer that airport. Torino has a lot less flights though. As an alternative, could you go open jaw, arriving in Malpensa and leaving from Bologna or Verona. Both airports are a short taxi ride from the centre, so pretty convenient.

Whilst Milano isn’t my favourite city, it may make sense to stay there, and you could consider staying there at the start whilst you get over jet lag, then hire a car from the city to drive to the Langhe. Whilst the ideal is often a rural stay to better shake jet lag off, it’s also good to avoid driving when groggy from the flight.

April/May a super time to go, with some superb new season fruit (fragoline and nespole very high on my list, but the kiwi fruit we found in a wonderful fruttivendolo in Torino was like sherbet Kiwi, so vibrant was the acidity). There are also some good wild mushrooms, including porcini which was a surprise at first when we found some in Cuneo.

Based on time of year / the other locations, I’ll agree with the suggestion to stay in the Langhe rather than Alba. It’s not a long drive to get into Alba if you want, and the new parking by the train station was convenient and inexpensive when we last went there. I’d also look to grab as much as a week here to increase the rural vs. city balance, plus there is of course so many wonderful wineries (and don’t ignore the walking - it’s excellent, straight through all those famous vineyards).

Cinque Terre paths are rather heavily touristed, in large part down to Rick Steves and his popular guidebook. Even off-peak, this can make it feel like a conveyor belt of people, mostly non-Italian, with a large proportion not realising this as English speaker after English speaker shouts ‘Buongiorno’ to English speaker after English speaker [wink.gif]. Do check up on which paths are open before going, and spring rains can cause landslides putting one or more out of action. There is a charge to use the paths, but given the conservation efforts of the locals, I think it’s perfectly valid. If you’re energetic, I’d recommend the path from the coast inland. They are more strenuous, buy not stupidly so, plus when the coastal paths are open, there’s no-one on these paths, making them a lovely opportunity to find some peace. Renting an apartment is pretty common here, and that’s always suited us. The local seafood very good, but also the piedine (flatbreads) that typically replace the bread in a sandwich, but are also nice fresh to accompany a light lunch at the apartment. The white wines good, but unfussy, whilst Sciacchetra is the somewhat expensive local ‘meditation’ wine. I’ll put in a couple of good words for nearby places. Portovenere is the more obvious recommendation, and I found it surprisingly charming and well worth the short boat trip to spend a few hours there. The other is slightly more unusual - La Spezia. It is a fairly unremarkable small port city, but as so often with unremarkable places in Italy, has a lovely life-affirming evening passeggiata, where babies are paraded and cooed over, whilst gossip and chit chat shared. It’s a joy that many tourists miss, and perhaps that’s best, as if they ‘discovered’ it, it wouldn’t be the same.

I liked Genova, but not anywhere near as much as Torino, and there are quite a number of Italian cities I’d visit in preference to it. That might sound like damning with faint praise, so I will reiterate that I liked it. The central shopping area is nicely laid out and with some fine shops (and they have the place I get deodorants from - Kelemata, so I’d invariably drop in to pick up a dozen or so of the arome e spezie range). The covered market is excellent, though sadly we didn’t have an apartment on those visits, so I was mostly limited to browsing. The old town on the way down to the port has character and well worth a stroll, though it did fell like it had a smidgen of edge to it. Nothing to stress about, and I really don’t think of it as dangerous, but something to be vaguely aware of in case you’re sensitive to such things.

I’ll make a case for swapping Torino in for one of the other cities. Logistically it’s super easy from Milano on the ES / Freccia trains, and for food, wine, easy layout and things to see and do, I’ve yet to find anywhere I prefer in Italy.

Finally one practical option if driving from (or back to) Milano Malpensa, that’s about 20-25 minutes away by car. We’ve stayed in a lovely agriturismo in Ghemme, called Il Cavenago. They do food, typically only at weekends (Fri night, Sat night & Sun lunch) and it’s a wonderful agriturismo multi-course banquet. The highlight typically in the usually unsung primi, as their risotto has been stunning at times, most strikingly with an intense basil risotto that left me with a daft grin on my face. The grounds, rooms (big old oak) and building are lovely, as are the grounds that house bats that we love seeing as the sun goes down before the evening meal. They grow a lot of their own food, including geese. One word of caution though… their driveway is somewhat steep an unsealed (and hence rutted). Calm and steady and it’s fine, though we can’t imagine the fun had by the owner of the sports car we saw parked there one year.

I hope this helps.

p.s. if you want somewhere 30 mins drive from Verona, with apartment in stunning grounds with an equally stunning spread for breakfast included, have a look at Massimago (also a winery) in Mezzane di Sotto. Might be a little early in the year to swim in their lovely pool, but walks in the grounds / through their vineyards would be good.

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Sound like a great trip. The Sistine Chapel was horribly crowded (both times), the worst experience of a month in Europe. Loved the food in Rome, of course. (Mater Terra was spectacular.) Stayed in Vernazza; poor restaurants & crowds! But, dawn on the beach was lovely. I hope to make it to Genoa next time so please let us know how it went.

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A hidden gem if you have Marriott points is Il Ciocco near Barga. Northeast of Pisa, the real rural northern Tuscany, very more local, fabulous and relatively cheap restaurants.

Perfect for the slower pace trip you seem to enjoy.

Ian’s sense of fine travel is the same as mine, and one of the few whose been more often than me, so if his advice doesn’t line up with mine, follow his. I’ve been eyeing Turin for a few years…

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I second Ian’s advice of Turin. If you go and you are at all interested in the topic I suggest the Museum of the Mountains, which is just across the Po from downtown. Even if you don’t go in, you can climb up the hill it is on and have a great view of the Alps from there.

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Andrew, here are two threads of mine on Venice

and Piemonte

Have fun! We still need to get together and cook New Mexican :slight_smile:

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If you aren’t going to the south to visit Puglia, Basilicata, Campania then you’re doing it wrong.

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It’s certainly worth considering for a different trip, with the experience being remarkably different to the North. Indeed having a similar 5 week trip that also took in Calabria and Sicilia might make for a very interesting comparison. I do always recommend trying to stay in a reasonably tight area to cut down on travel, which is all too often wasted time (though we do tend to enjoy the ES / Freccia train journeys themselves - once on board).

FWIW it’s been made very clear to me that the brains of the operation prefers the *North, but this is absolutely a personal preference thing - different rather than being better or worse.

  • though we’ve had some great holidays on the Amalfi coast, with it’s superb network of paths that still remain largely underused.
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Didn’t mean to throw An_Drew_Gelb’s Northern Italy plan in disarray. But am simply throwing in my $.02 in case there’s wiggle room.

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Rather than Alba a stay in the small towns outside is better.We always stay at costello di Sinio which is about a 15 minute drive from Alba.It is quite lovely and run by Denise.She is an American and is quite knowledgeable about the wineries in the area.She can arrange visits.Last time we were there Antonio Galloni was staying there.The wineries we enjoyed we booked ourselves by asking via email.Loved visits with Aldo Conterna,Vieti and especially Sandone.Hope this helps and have a wonderful time.

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For Verona, I recommend a wine tour to Valpolicella and/or Soave with Group tours. In 2018, we did 2 day long tours of Amarone wineries. Excellent and knowledgeable tour guides with visits to small boutique wineries. One of the best dinners was at Antica Bottega del Vino in Verona.

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