Forman x Thorevilos

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luc@sl@belle
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Forman x Thorevilos

#1 Post by luc@sl@belle » March 27th, 2019, 5:34 pm

Was just reading about the 2015 Forman and AG mentions that Eric got fruit from the Thorevilos vineyard and blended it into his Cabernet. Have to imagine at the current price this could be a real standout from Napa in 15 based on The quality of the fruit and the wine maker.

Also says he purchased fruit in 16 from Thorevilos which could potentially end up in a stand alone bottling.

Any insight on this?

Cheers!
Last edited by luc@sl@belle on March 27th, 2019, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JDavisRoby
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#2 Post by JDavisRoby » March 27th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Directly from the Forman store on their website:

https://formanvineyard.vinespring.com/purchase

“The 2015 Cabernet Sauvignon is dense, pliant and wonderfully expressive. Ric Forman's wines are always on the restrained side, but the 2015 packs a good bit of punch. Sweet red cherry, raspberry, sage, mint, and rose petal overtones all add to the wine's precision and nuance. In 2015, Forman took in fruit from Thorevilos, which he co-manages with David Abreu, but ultimately decided to add that juice to the Cabernet Sauvignon rather than bottle it separately. Dollops of Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot and Malbec round out the blend. This is one of the classiest wines of the vintage. 96 - Antonio Galloni”



Assume that’s clipped from the article you read?
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luc@sl@belle
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#3 Post by luc@sl@belle » March 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Yea!

Curious if anyone has tried it? There is only one review on CT with notes but it’s likely so young few have tried.

Thinking I’m gonna pick some up to add to the cellar. Will also keep my eyes out for the 16 as it’s an even better vintage.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#4 Post by jbray23 » March 27th, 2019, 10:36 pm

I sell Forman so take what I say with a grain of salt..

Forman is not like it used to be but almost none of Napa is. The wines are a bit fuller and closer to drinkability then they used to be.
The wine is certainly bigger but they are not huge by Napa standards.

It's not my style of wine but certainly is worthy of it's score if you are into the style of wines.
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#5 Post by Karl K » March 28th, 2019, 3:50 am

jbray23 wrote:
March 27th, 2019, 10:36 pm
I sell Forman so take what I say with a grain of salt..

Forman is not like it used to be but almost none of Napa is. The wines are a bit fuller and closer to drinkability then they used to be.
The wine is certainly bigger but they are not huge by Napa standards.

It's not my style of wine but certainly is worthy of it's score if you are into the style of wines.
Jbray, in your opinion what wineries in Napa are like they used to be? Smith-Madrone, Corison?
K a z a k s

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#6 Post by luc@sl@belle » March 29th, 2019, 4:44 am

Karl K wrote:
March 28th, 2019, 3:50 am
jbray23 wrote:
March 27th, 2019, 10:36 pm
I sell Forman so take what I say with a grain of salt..

Forman is not like it used to be but almost none of Napa is. The wines are a bit fuller and closer to drinkability then they used to be.
The wine is certainly bigger but they are not huge by Napa standards.

It's not my style of wine but certainly is worthy of it's score if you are into the style of wines.
Jbray, in your opinion what wineries in Napa are like they used to be? Smith-Madrone, Corison?
Also curious...

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#7 Post by Kris Patten » March 29th, 2019, 7:39 am

Karl K wrote:
March 28th, 2019, 3:50 am
jbray23 wrote:
March 27th, 2019, 10:36 pm
I sell Forman so take what I say with a grain of salt..

Forman is not like it used to be but almost none of Napa is. The wines are a bit fuller and closer to drinkability then they used to be.
The wine is certainly bigger but they are not huge by Napa standards.

It's not my style of wine but certainly is worthy of it's score if you are into the style of wines.
Jbray, in your opinion what wineries in Napa are like they used to be? Smith-Madrone, Corison?
Not Jason, but with global warming it's a conscious choice, I'd say...Corison, Heitz, Charles Krug, Dunn, Mayacamas, Clos du Val, Buehler, Silverado, Fisher, Silver Oak and Hess, never had Smith Madrone. (I have sold or do sell some of these, hence have a recent history with them)

Unless they made Cabs in a traditional less ripe/extracted way historically, I don't know of anyone who has come into Napa making that style.
ITB

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#8 Post by jbray23 » March 30th, 2019, 10:34 am

Sorry for not responding sooner....

To me, I’ve always felt these wines were the old gaurd, traditional Cabernet producers..

Forman
Mayacamas
Diamond creek
Jordan
Robert Mondavi
Ridge
Heitz
Silver Oak
Dalla Valle
Corison
Smith madrone
Laurel Glen
Dunn

That’s off the top of my head....
Jason, back itb

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#9 Post by CJ Beazley » March 30th, 2019, 10:51 am

They don’t make much of it but Stony Hill is pretty old school, not a bad qpr either.
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#10 Post by Chris Atkins » April 1st, 2019, 4:00 pm

I rather doubt that Ric will make a separate Thorevillos bottling, I guess we will know for sure pretty soon.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#11 Post by C. Keller » August 25th, 2019, 4:47 pm

Unrelated but saw something on Instagram that the Thorevilos vineyard is now called Ecotone. Would Abreu change the name then?

Not that you should believe everything you see on the internet.
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#12 Post by William Kelley » August 25th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Ric (not Eric) has often included Thorevilos fruit in his Cabernet over the years. I thought he co-owned it as well as co-managing it (as is quoted here) with David Abreu. I don't think his estate vineyard loses anything by comparison, though.
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#13 Post by Ed Steinway » August 25th, 2019, 8:45 pm

William Kelley wrote:
Ric (not Eric) has often included Thorevilos fruit in his Cabernet over the years. I thought he co-owned it as well as co-managing it (as is quoted here) with David Abreu. I don't think his estate vineyard loses anything by comparison, though.
For what it is worth, Robert Parker wrote in Issue # 186 of the Wine Advocate that the Thorevilos vineyard was co-owned between them.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#14 Post by Frank Z » August 25th, 2019, 11:36 pm

C. Keller wrote:
August 25th, 2019, 4:47 pm
Unrelated but saw something on Instagram that the Thorevilos vineyard is now called Ecotone. Would Abreu change the name then?

Not that you should believe everything you see on the internet.
I’ve heard from several winemakers that Abreu will no longer produce the Thorevilos, and that other producers will begin using the Ecotone vineyard for their own wines (e.g. Vice Versa)
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#15 Post by Marc Frontario » August 28th, 2019, 3:00 pm

jbray23 wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 10:34 am
Sorry for not responding sooner....

To me, I’ve always felt these wines were the old gaurd, traditional Cabernet producers..

Forman
Mayacamas
Diamond creek
Jordan
Robert Mondavi
Ridge
Heitz
Silver Oak
Dalla Valle
Corison
Smith madrone
Laurel Glen
Dunn

That’s off the top of my head....

Togni?
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I cannot escape the ravages of this man....R.Alfert

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#16 Post by jbray23 » August 28th, 2019, 8:54 pm

Marc Frontario wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 3:00 pm
jbray23 wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 10:34 am
Sorry for not responding sooner....

To me, I’ve always felt these wines were the old gaurd, traditional Cabernet producers..

Forman
Mayacamas
Diamond creek
Jordan
Robert Mondavi
Ridge
Heitz
Silver Oak
Dalla Valle
Corison
Smith madrone
Laurel Glen
Dunn

That’s off the top of my head....

Togni?
Well, I’m not perfect... I really like his desert wine
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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#17 Post by Howard Cooper » August 29th, 2019, 5:46 am

Marc Frontario wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 3:00 pm
jbray23 wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 10:34 am
Sorry for not responding sooner....

To me, I’ve always felt these wines were the old gaurd, traditional Cabernet producers..

Forman
Mayacamas
Diamond creek
Jordan
Robert Mondavi
Ridge
Heitz
Silver Oak
Dalla Valle
Corison
Smith madrone
Laurel Glen
Dunn

That’s off the top of my head....

Togni?
I would add Togni, Stony Hill, Chateau Montelena. Should Stag's Leap be on the list - have not had any of their wines in years. Don't really understand Silver Oak on this list.
Howard

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#18 Post by Gabe Berk » August 29th, 2019, 8:17 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 5:46 am
Marc Frontario wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 3:00 pm
jbray23 wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 10:34 am
Sorry for not responding sooner....

To me, I’ve always felt these wines were the old gaurd, traditional Cabernet producers..

Forman
Mayacamas
Diamond creek
Jordan
Robert Mondavi
Ridge
Heitz
Silver Oak
Dalla Valle
Corison
Smith madrone
Laurel Glen
Dunn

That’s off the top of my head....

Togni?
I would add Togni, Stony Hill, Chateau Montelena. Should Stag's Leap be on the list - have not had any of their wines in years. Don't really understand Silver Oak on this list.
Silver Oak could be considered Old Guard...I'd include BV as well.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#19 Post by Howard Cooper » August 29th, 2019, 8:27 am

Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:17 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 5:46 am
Marc Frontario wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 3:00 pm



Togni?
I would add Togni, Stony Hill, Chateau Montelena. Should Stag's Leap be on the list - have not had any of their wines in years. Don't really understand Silver Oak on this list.
Silver Oak could be considered Old Guard...I'd include BV as well.
Silver Oak is old guard in the sense that it has been around for a long time, but “traditional”?
Howard

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#20 Post by Gabe Berk » August 29th, 2019, 8:48 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:27 am
Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:17 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 5:46 am


I would add Togni, Stony Hill, Chateau Montelena. Should Stag's Leap be on the list - have not had any of their wines in years. Don't really understand Silver Oak on this list.
Silver Oak could be considered Old Guard...I'd include BV as well.
Silver Oak is old guard in the sense that it has been around for a long time, but “traditional”?
Traditional, as in growing fruit and making wine with a house style that hasn't changed much in the 45+ years they've been making wine. They haven't gone full blown, hyper extracted fruit/oak bomb like some other wineries have in that same time frame.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#21 Post by Howard Cooper » August 29th, 2019, 11:10 am

Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:48 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:27 am
Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:17 am


Silver Oak could be considered Old Guard...I'd include BV as well.
Silver Oak is old guard in the sense that it has been around for a long time, but “traditional”?
Traditional, as in growing fruit and making wine with a house style that hasn't changed much in the 45+ years they've been making wine. They haven't gone full blown, hyper extracted fruit/oak bomb like some other wineries have in that same time frame.
Look, you can like what you like, but to me, Silver Oak is the muzak of California Cabernet and probably always have been. If you believe that Silver Oak is a traditional California Cabernet, you really are damning traditional California Cabs.
Howard

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#22 Post by Gabe Berk » August 29th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 11:10 am
Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:48 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:27 am


Silver Oak is old guard in the sense that it has been around for a long time, but “traditional”?
Traditional, as in growing fruit and making wine with a house style that hasn't changed much in the 45+ years they've been making wine. They haven't gone full blown, hyper extracted fruit/oak bomb like some other wineries have in that same time frame.
Look, you can like what you like, but to me, Silver Oak is the muzak of California Cabernet and probably always have been. If you believe that Silver Oak is a traditional California Cabernet, you really are damning traditional California Cabs.
I get that Silver Oak was hip at one point and has been the poster child of the "gray haired Cabernet fan club", but that doesn't take away the fact that they along with Ric Forman (who this whole thread is about really) were pioneers in the world of Napa Cabernet, hence "Old Guard". Without the likes of Forman, Justin Meyer, the Mondavi's, Chappellet's, Phelps, Barrett's, Peterson's, Lail's and handful of others, there would be no tradition of Napa Cabernet.

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#23 Post by Marc Frontario » August 29th, 2019, 1:27 pm

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Re: Forman x Thorevilos

#24 Post by Howard Cooper » August 29th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 12:14 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 11:10 am
Gabe Berk wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 8:48 am


Traditional, as in growing fruit and making wine with a house style that hasn't changed much in the 45+ years they've been making wine. They haven't gone full blown, hyper extracted fruit/oak bomb like some other wineries have in that same time frame.
Look, you can like what you like, but to me, Silver Oak is the muzak of California Cabernet and probably always have been. If you believe that Silver Oak is a traditional California Cabernet, you really are damning traditional California Cabs.
I get that Silver Oak was hip at one point and has been the poster child of the "gray haired Cabernet fan club", but that doesn't take away the fact that they along with Ric Forman (who this whole thread is about really) were pioneers in the world of Napa Cabernet, hence "Old Guard". Without the likes of Forman, Justin Meyer, the Mondavi's, Chappellet's, Phelps, Barrett's, Peterson's, Lail's and handful of others, there would be no tradition of Napa Cabernet.
I don’t recall Silver Oak as being hip for people really into wine. IMHO, it has always been a huge wine for people who want an easy drinking wine that is not too challenging - sort of the Sonoma Cutre of Cabernet. I thought that the first time I tasted Silver Oak in 1984 and every time I have had it since.
Howard

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