1990 Musar on Winebid.com

[jordan_jacobs]

What are some good older vintages of Musar I should look out for?

Not really old but these are some of my favorites from the period I was buying:

1989, 1991*, 1993, 1995**, 1997, 1999*, 2000

• extra special
  ** of the bottles I’ve opened 4 were very good though not up to 1991 or 1999, the most recent (and last one I owned) was mind blowingly awesome.

I hear great things about 2005 and have some pending delivery but have not tried it yet.

93 and 97 are the best I’ve had. Still have a few.

[Kirk.Grant]

Seems like there are 9 bottles that don’t seem to have indication as to having lower fills, but the picture for the lot seems to be below neck. What are your thoughts?

Mike,

I’ve had many, MANY bottles of Musar that we at fill levels below the top of the label that were still outstanding wines. Musar & Sherry are two wines that fill level does not bother/scare me if it’s below the neck.

The 1990 has always been enjoyable, but I’m not likely to pay $145/bottle for it.

[Craig_G]

Label looks ok to me. My '89s and '90s both have Broadbent Selections on the front label. I purchased these bottles many years ago from someone who works at Broadbent. I think I paid about $30 a bottle at the time. The ones I’ve drunk have been great!

Since your bottles also seem to be fake, we’ll take them off your hands for $30.

[Cris_Whetstone]

I looked for folks in the USA on Vivino who had reviewed this bottle / vintage and uploaded their own picture (you can scan for the image people upload when they review a wine by clicking on their user name). Wasn’t able to find many reviewers of this vintage in the US, but did find one and wouldn’t you know it, right there on the label:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Not saying this is legit as a result of the above, but those bottles certainly look to be the same.

Thank you for sharing this. Seeing this makes me a lot less concerned. Hell, I may bid on the bottles with this information shared now…

As to the concern about the fill levels. I’ve had mind-bending bottles with far lower fills.

As such, you might want to change the subject heading on the thread.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

On a less serious note, what on earth would you put in the bottle if you were counterfeiting Musar? Not sure some other wine comes to mind that could pass for it.

I’d mix a L bank Bdx. with a Cotes du Rhone or a red-fruited CdP.

[Otto_Forsberg]

On a less serious note, what on earth would you put in the bottle if you were counterfeiting Musar? Not sure some other wine comes to mind that could pass for it.

I’d mix a L bank Bdx. with a Cotes du Rhone or a red-fruited CdP.

You’d still need to be quite careful which wines you’d need to use to get the right amount of brett and VA.

[Markus_S]

… it’s hard to imagine enough fake 90 Musar getting circulated to be worth risking jail and all.

Laws and jurisdictions being what they are, I seriously doubt many counterfeiters would go to jail, if that were the case 50% of Amazon sellers wouldn’t be on that platform. Also, a small profit to us Americans could be a large sum to people in other countries, perhaps supporting them for months.

[MikeL238]

Seems like there are 9 bottles that don’t seem to have indication as to having lower fills, but the picture for the lot seems to be below neck. What are your thoughts?

Mike,

I’ve had many, MANY bottles of Musar that we at fill levels below the top of the label that were still outstanding wines. Musar & Sherry are two wines that fill level does not bother/scare me if it’s below the neck.

The 1990 has always been enjoyable, but I’m not likely to pay $145/bottle for it.

good to know-thanks Kirk! And yeah, given how other vintages go for a lot lower, I don’t see myself paying 145+premium for a bottle.

[Jay_Miller]

Seems like there are 9 bottles that don’t seem to have indication as to having lower fills, but the picture for the lot seems to be below neck. What are your thoughts?

Mike,

I’ve had many, MANY bottles of Musar that we at fill levels below the top of the label that were still outstanding wines. Musar & Sherry are two wines that fill level does not bother/scare me if it’s below the neck.

The 1990 has always been enjoyable, but I’m not likely to pay $145/bottle for it.

Agreed, it’s always been a good wine but not an exciting one.

[Mike_Evans]

What are some good older vintages of Musar I should look out for?

Not really old but these are some of my favorites from the period I was buying:

1989, 1991*, 1993, 1995**, 1997, 1999*, 2000

• extra special
  ** of the bottles I’ve opened 4 were very good though not up to 1991 or 1999, the most recent (and last one I owned) was mind blowingly awesome.

I hear great things about 2005 and have some pending delivery but have not tried it yet.

Your list starts one year after the 1988, which I think is one of the all time greats. I recall Stuart Y. comparing it to the legendary 1972, a comparison with which I agree.

[Otto_Forsberg]

Your list starts one year after the 1988, which I think is one of the all time greats. I recall Stuart Y. comparing it to the legendary 1972, a comparison with which I agree.

I’ve tasted 1988 and 1989 once side-by-side and both are among the best Musars I’ve ever tasted. However, in that tasting 1989 was superior to 1988.

And re: 2005, that might just be the vintage of the 2000’s. The jury is still out whether 2008 will outperform in the longer run, but for now 2005 is quite peerless.

[AD_Northup]

Your list starts one year after the 1988, which I think is one of the all time greats. I recall Stuart Y. comparing it to the legendary 1972, a comparison with which I agree.

I’ve tasted 1988 and 1989 once side-by-side and both are among the best Musars I’ve ever tasted. However, in that tasting 1989 was superior to 1988.

And re: 2005, that might just be the vintage of the 2000’s. The jury is still out whether 2008 will outperform in the longer run, but for now 2005 is quite peerless.

88 and 89 just popped up on Cellaraiders

[RMann]

All, thanks for the comments. Now 1.5 years into running WineBid, and trying to get involved with the community unlike the prior team, I’ve chatted online with many of you before but some are new handles. Most of you know, I’ve been trying to make WineBid the most transparent and customer-focused auction house or wine retailer (online or offline!), try not to be “commercial” and try to answer any customer service questions or general questions about buying and selling wine at auction in general or WineBid in specific. But seeing this thread, I have to say, I’m pretty disappointed at the thread headline and insinuations that WineBid trades in fake wines, which we most emphatically do not, or that we are not thorough in our inspection process, which we most emphatically are. So, to make public statements like “buyer beware” or insinuations that WineBid trades in fake bottles is very inappropriate, and I’d really appreciate that such insinuations are discontinued.

For those of you who aren’t familiar with WineBid and our inspection process, we vet every consignment and consignor for general provenance and storage conditions up front, and we include these detailed notes on the site (unlike most other auction houses or online wine sites). We have a team of tenured inspectors with WSET training, who hand inspect every bottle on ~15 checkpoint list. Anything of concern gets double checked with a second tier of more detailed inspection, which includes reviewing our 20+ year database of label photographs of over 500,000 bottles, our detailed library of fraud-spotting notes in the industry over the years, reviewing other sites like CellarTracker and Vivino for crowdsourced photos (as above), historical books, and even attempts to call the producer. If we have any concern, whether for potential fraud or just simply auctionable quality, we kick out and it never gets put on the site. And for every bottle listed, WineBid provides the most detailed inspection notes, as well as high-res photos of each bottle (which most other online auctions don’t do), and 360 degree zoomable photos for high value bottles, which no one else does.

From being in the industry for a year and half and doing a lot of work on authenticity (not just in wines, but also in other ecommerce categories), and knowing how much time, effort, manpower and money we spend on inspection, I firmly believe that WineBid has one of the most thorough inspection processes, and provides more item detail and transparency on our site, than anyone else in the market today- whether online or offline.

Now, I understand that many of you are very sophisticated and dedicated collectors, sometimes in very specific producers or varietals or importers- practically PhDs in particular wines, and sometimes something may look “off” to you or you have a specific question. And if you ever question an item, you are welcome to bring it to my attention (preferably privately) by DMing me through Berserkers or to my email rmann@winebid.com, or email/call/chat customer service. We will not provide consignor information or any of our own inspection details beyond what we put on the site, but we always want to be as helpful as possible in your bidding and buying decisions.

Similarly, some of you have commented in the past on coloration/discoloration of older wines, or fill levels, for example , and wondered why WineBid puts them up on our site. I can tell you that after checking for authenticity and provenance, we will still put those up (again, with detailed notes and photographs) because inevitably, there is some collector who wants that bottle, regardless of potential drinkability, and if they want it, we want to make it available to them. We view our job as to do the absolute best job of inspection for authenticity and overall quality up front, and provide as much detail as possible so that buyers like yourselves can make informed decisions on whether and how much to bid.

Again, I’m not saying we’re perfect or that we can’t be questioned. We’re all learning something new every day. And we’re happy to take questions via customer service email, chat or phone. We greatly enjoy all the Berserker’s passion for great wine, we respect your deep knowledge in wine, and sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm for our site and attention to detail overall.

Thanks for your business, stay healthy and safe out there, and happy bidding, winning, tasting and sharing!

[Kirk.Grant]

Looking back at this, hindsight is 20/20 & I should have reached out to the Wined Team first before posting here. I think that seeing something I had not seen in close to 15 years of drinking Musar made me want to reach out to our community first…but I should have spoken with the team at Winebid.com.

They’ve been responsive in the past when I contacted them about a bottle of Didier Dagueneau Asteroid having the wrong label for the vintage listed, pulling the wine immediately to re-inspect. I think it’s really important to own when I make a mistake, and acknowledge that I could have handled this better.

I am truly grateful for the people that helped me to set this straight.

[Chris_Seiber]

It was a good discussion and learning experience for everyone, anyway.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

On a less serious note, what on earth would you put in the bottle if you were counterfeiting Musar? Not sure some other wine comes to mind that could pass for it.

I’d mix a L bank Bdx. with a Cotes du Rhone or a red-fruited CdP.

You’d still need to be quite careful which wines you’d need to use to get the right amount of brett and VA.

… perfect! Well-played, Otto, well-played.

[RMann]

Looking back at this, hindsight is 20/20 & I should have reached out to the Wined Team first before posting here. I think that seeing something I had not seen in close to 15 years of drinking Musar made me want to reach out to our community first…but I should have spoken with the team at Wined.com.

They’ve been responsive in the past when I contacted them about a bottle of Didier Dagueneau Asteroid having the wrong label for the vintage listed, pulling the wine immediately to re-inspect. I think it’s really important to own when I make a mistake, and acknowledge that I could have handled this better.

I am truly grateful for the people that helped me to set this strait.

Thanks Kirk! Although I don’t know about those Wined.com guys… that’s a totally different outfit. If they have 1990 Musars you’ll have to talk to them! As for WineBid, we’re happy to have you and everyone else on Berserkers as a customer.

[Victor_Hong]

I am truly grateful for the people that helped me to set this strait.

Freudian slip?

[Chris_Seiber]

Looking back at this, hindsight is 20/20 & I should have reached out to the Wined Team first before posting here. I think that seeing something I had not seen in close to 15 years of drinking Musar made me want to reach out to our community first…but I should have spoken with the team at Wined.com.

They’ve been responsive in the past when I contacted them about a bottle of Didier Dagueneau Asteroid having the wrong label for the vintage listed, pulling the wine immediately to re-inspect. I think it’s really important to own when I make a mistake, and acknowledge that I could have handled this better.

I am truly grateful for the people that helped me to set this strait.

Thanks Kirk! Although I don’t know about those Wined.com guys… that’s a totally different outfit. If they have 1990 Musars you’ll have to talk to them! As for WineBid, we’re happy to have you and everyone else on Berserkers as a customer.

They just merged with Dined.com to offer a full romancing and schmoozing experience.

[Jay_Miller]

Your list starts one year after the 1988, which I think is one of the all time greats. I recall Stuart Y. comparing it to the legendary 1972, a comparison with which I agree.

I may be mistaken (having lost access to old notes on WLDG, Squires, and WT) but I don’t think I’ve ever had the 1988. I started buying Musar when the 1991s were out and had the 1989 and 1990 on several occasions.

My first Musar was a mid-80s vintage Greg dal Piaz opened (no idea what it was) and I organized one vertical with older vintages but I have no recollection of what was opened there either.

Sounds like I missed something special .