23,000 Leflaive GC and Pucelles bottles pre 2014 reconditioned at the Domaine...

If you mean Anne-Claude, the “old dame” died at age 59. Otherwise, i think the sentiments hold true.

I might be alone in this, but there is something sad and crass about the idea of opening up all these decades-old bottles and subjecting them to these technological manipulations. There is this loss of authenticity and integrity and connection to the past that is deplorable. I had this same visceral reaction to the library wines at Eyrie, which have undergone similar (if not identical) treatment; to be clear I hated the taste of what was presented to me, as the perfect, sterile, sanitized version of the past, on my tongue. Perhaps I’m just an incurable romantic…

Sometimes I’m the opposite and think why do we put up with bad old wine when with a little mixology we could probably make something quite drinkable. Isn’t the taste the most important thing?

Other days I think the above thought is crass :smiley:

I am still confused. If all pre-2014 GC and Pucelles at the domaine were opened and tasted prior to “reconditioning”, the more recent wines would be at least 6 years old now and I assume that a number of wines in the ? 2000-2013 vintages would be showing signs of premox…which Leflaive had become notorious for in that period. It is unclear whether wines that showed signs of advancement or premox were discarded or were “reconditioned” anyway, which of course should not have had any beneficial effect in reversing the pox (though I don’t know if it might arrest or slow future degradation by changing from the original cork to DIAM), and if they were discarded then it would be interesting to know how many were poured down the sink, as I have done numerous times.

I hope you are alone in this, as some of the Eyrie library wines have been among the most profound wines I’ve had in recent years. If the bottles are topped off with the same wine, then they simply represent authentic versions of the wine that have been screened for flaws. I commend any producer who takes action to ensure that they aren’t releasing flawed bottles from their library, particularly when they know or should know that a significant portion of their library wines are flawed.

+1, a reconditioned 1996 Eyrie South Block library release is in my top 10 wines, if not top 5 - was that profound.

I agree that topping up with the same wine isn’t really messing about at all.

My post was questioning if even a bit of ‘messing around’ is such an issue. When new world wineries are allowed to have a certain leeway when it comes to declared varieties/vintage/region to start with, how ‘pure’ are most wines from the get go anyway?

The prices I’ve seen are fair in the context of the current market for non-reconditioned wines. I’d say around 20% below market for ‘pure’ bottles…

A couple thoughts here. How could the Domain process refunds? Would it be like a class action, where every single person who consumed a bottle of Leflaive comes out of the wood work and winds up with $12 each? Hard to prove your loss, is my point.

Secondly, id bet the Domain is going to begin some library releases and this is just a primer in hopes that some people bite.

23,000 bottles were “reconditioned” over a period of three years. Equivalent to less than 2 bottles per month

At first I was reading this as 2 bottles reconditioned a month (rather than 600+). Now I see based on quoted post you mean 2 bottles tasted (based on earlier estimate of 2 ml). But not sure how much 2 ml would be useful. Obviously nose is way more important (especially as far as TCA, but would show for premox as well) but if they are going to taste a 1/3 teaspoon is hard to judge from. But I guess if you are doing it 600+ times a month…

I saw someone from Singapore commenting that they were being offered at 20% above current market prices?

They don’t necessarily have to top off with the same vintage.

Let’s say the premox rate is 90% on the 2007:

  1. Do you even want them topping off with 2007?
  2. Is there even enough “good” 2007 to top off with?
  3. Where do they draw the line on what bottle is good enough to top off vs discard? There is always disagreement on if a questionable bottle is simply advanced or full on premox with experienced tasters. When tasting through the lens of the Domaine with the bottom line in mind, are they more likely to be very strict or lenient on advanced vs premox?

I’m usually not a buyer of reconditioned late releases for these reasons.