One of the most extreme examples of mousiness was Tenuta San Leonardo’s vintage 2000 - a wine I never expected to show any mousiness! I have no idea whether they’ve fiddled with no-SO2 vinifications back then or what has happened, but this wine was surprisingly nice up until the aftertaste, which developed a mild yet noticeable streak of mousiness. I guess is THP was going to disappear with age, it would’ve happened in the 17 years the wine existed!
But I guess it has to do with the wine not being bretty. It was clean as a whistle (apart from the mousiness), so I guess it’s possible that had there been any brett, it might’ve eaten that THP during that time.
That is most certainly true. Some wines are mousy right from the start, others start off brilliant and start to turn mousy quite soon - perhaps after two hours, perhaps just 15 minutes.
The most extreme example of this was a bottle of Baudry Chinon which was wonderful quite soon after opening, still superb on the next day, and on the third day had developed a tiny bit of mousiness in the aftertaste.
Anyways, I’ve understood the wine staying open and turning more mousy is entirely different from a wine aging. I’ve had bottles from naturalist producers that have been mousy from the beginning and they haven’t turned any more mousy with bottle age (some bottles we’ve been following over 4-5 years now). Alas, they haven’t turned any less mousy, either!
As ever, the truth lies between the extremes of opinion. There are certainly plenty of genuinely faulty natural wines, that no amount of “but that’s how it’s meant to taste” crap can be tolerated. There are also plenty of genuinely exciting natural wines, perhaps more likely from those that don’t proclaim the ‘natural’ tag, but are happy to let the wines talk. There is also an unusual middle ground, of wines that are different to the wines we’ve grown up on, and can be interesting for challenging our perceptions. For the adventurous, it’s a very interesting field, but for those that have slowly worked towards the wines they like, it’s too much of a minefield to be bothered with.
Heard this multiple times as well. But from the few examples I have had the possibility to follow over a few years (3-4) it has not been the case sadly… and there has certainly been some bretty Jura wines in between those
When I opened my first bottles of 2019 Dutraive they were all mousey. So if they are indeed now showing better (as the OP seems to indicate), perhaps this thesis is valid.
Maybe. But as I mentioned in another post above then I just sold my last Dutraive’s because I had so many issues with them.
Maybe they just emptied the bottle quick. I often drink my wines over two to three days (small kids you know…). I think it differs a lot how long it takes to show. With some bottles it has killed the wine within 15 mins, for others it is a day two issue.
Haha fair enough. Heard it from people that was not selling me anything as well though… but the natural wine cult can be rather extreme here in Copenhagen
I am not 100% convinced that mouse can get better with age. I am definitely convinced that the same wine can be more or less mousey bottle by bottle as I have experienced it a number of times.
Yuki who is a natural wine somm used to put a mouse and the estimated time you had to drink certain wines before it showed on his wine list at Restaurant 108 in Copenhagen! I loved it, at least he was honest.
My note was from day two only after having stored the remainder of the bottle in a 4oz container in the fridge. Didn’t pay enough attention to this wine on day 1. No mousiness.
Haha. I also sold most of my dry riesling two years ago… anyways the people in the small community that buys and sell wines on the platform will know the gamble on these wines.
Sadly 108 closed down during the pandemic. But the talent has just spread to other new restaurants
This. I think the hypothesis is solution biochemistry over time in the relatively anaerobic environment of a sealed bottle starves the microbial production of the offensive molecule and breaks it down.
1993 Overnoy Poulsard was a “famous”
Internet example. The wine was undrinkable around 2000 but then became quite nice 10 years later.
I’ve also recall seeing anecdotally from Eric Texier that he saw big improvement over time measured in years of one cuvée that was affected.
Unlike cork taint or oxydation, mousiness is meant to be barrel specific (ie: all bottles from same barrel will have the same issue) so you can actually test by opening a bottle. In the case of Belluard’s 2017s, for example, that’s more or less the entire production impacted. So you can track the evolution of the issue by opening any random bottle of his from that year.
.![[dontknow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/2/259bbc27e64baab255bbf586025626180d3e97e8.gif "dontknow"){kind=small}
