Aging Rioja: Asimov in the Times

[Carlos_Delpin]

@david li

@Carlos Delpin

Puerto Rico is a treasure cove for aged Rioja. Many of the original wine collectors in PR have been buying Rioja ex cellars since the 1960’s due to the marked Spanish influence in our Island. We’ve had tons of crianzas from the 1960’s and 1970’s that are sublime. IMHO the freshness of the fruit due to the reduced barrel contact makes them age really well.

Carlos
I am going to PR soon. Where can I find these well aged Rioja at retail? Thanks

David:

Not at retail. These wines are sitting quietly in our cellars but do come out to play for friends and berserker visitors. You can find at retail well cared for early 2000’s and maybe 1995/1996.

Cheers!

[Hank_Gillespie]

I very much agree with Neal that the Asimov article is both interesting and informative, especially for the novice wine drinkers seeking to broaden their horizons.

I have been enjoying Rioja sinews for decades and vividly recall the 1954 Lopez de Heredia Tondonia Gran Reserva, which might have been the best Rioja I have tasted. My cellar still holds Gran Reservas from 1970 and earlier vintages. These wine age beautifully and develop a broad plethora of aromas and tasting attributes.

Eric Asimov often unfairly receives less than favourable comments from the anointed few who consider themselves above the rank and file enthusiasts. Too bad, because these commentators miss the point…anyway, it’s their loss.

Hank

[Ramon_C]

@Glenn L e v i n e

@RS Beck

He has a column. He shares his passion for the kind of wine he enjoys. He tries to encourage and educate his readership to enjoy a broad range of wines with certain parameters.

Where’s the crime?

He’s parading the virtues of aged Rioja to legion who may not know. Possibly the last, great, affordable region.

2nd to the last. Loire.

[Markus_S]

@Carlos Delpin

@david li

@Carlos Delpin

Puerto Rico is a treasure cove for aged Rioja. Many of the original wine collectors in PR have been buying Rioja ex cellars since the 1960’s due to the marked Spanish influence in our Island. We’ve had tons of crianzas from the 1960’s and 1970’s that are sublime. IMHO the freshness of the fruit due to the reduced barrel contact makes them age really well.

Carlos
I am going to PR soon. Where can I find these well aged Rioja at retail? Thanks

David:

Not at retail. These wines are sitting quietly in our cellars but do come out to play for friends and berserker visitors. You can find at retail well cared for early 2000’s and maybe 1995/1996.

Cheers!

This sounds as good as any a reason to visit San Juan!

[RS_Beck]

Asimov has written favorably about wines I’ve enjoyed and collected. I haven’t noticed him starting any wild fires around prices or availability, except maybe some stores have been persuaded to start carrying the wines.

I think we’re pretty safe on this one.

I’d be more worried about Mannie Berk.

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

These wines seem to age like Port.

What are good points of entry for the beginner, beyond what Eric mentions?

[Keith_Levenberg]

@Ian Fitzsimmons

These wines seem to age like Port.

What are good points of entry for the beginner, beyond what Eric mentions?

Ian - you need to try Pecina if you haven’t already. The 05 Reserva is a perfect one to try.

[D_Wirsig]

@Ramon Cabrera

@Glenn L e v i n e

@RS Beck

He has a column. He shares his passion for the kind of wine he enjoys. He tries to encourage and educate his readership to enjoy a broad range of wines with certain parameters.

Where’s the crime?

He’s parading the virtues of aged Rioja to legion who may not know. Possibly the last, great, affordable region.

2nd to the last. Loire.

Hopefully the green & bell pepper will keep people out, although I’ve been seeing more $40-50 bottles lately. Just bought a beautiful '89 for $30 retail

[GregT]

Markus - there is much to be enamored of. I consider Maria and her sister friends and I like many of their wines. But they are not the be all and the end all and they will admit it themselves. They’ve inherited a niche and while things were rocky for a while, people have latched on to them now and their wines are increasing in price every year. I wish them well and I’m glad to have their wines almost every time I have one.

Taylor - the VA is not "typical’ of Rioja, but it is perhaps “typical” of LdH and it’s one way to distinguish their wine in a blind tasting. There are some other producers who offer that as well, but for me, LdH is the most pronounced. But it’s rarely been off-putting to me - a little can sometimes increase the complexity. It’s like brett though - we all have different tolerances for it.

Brian, et. al. - the reason I think the crianza designation is stupid is that where else on the planet would you take your “worst” grapes, lock them in oak, and then require holding the bottles even longer before release? If the grapes are good enough to go through that, the producer will just hold the bottles a year longer and call it reserva and charge a few dollars more. In fact, that’s what Alejandro Fernández used to tell people to do with his Pesquera.

In most of Spain, the crianza requirement is six months in oak, which is also arbitrary, but in Rioja, RdD and Navarra it’s a year. That really makes very little sense today and as a result, people are putting out things with labels like “roble”, “barrica”, “joven” etc., which can be some great values although not in all cases. Nothing says they have to be inexpensive - it’s like Antinori and his Tignanello - he called it table wine but took great care in making it and charged accordingly. So those labels free people from the required aging regimens, and often indicate younger wines, but they don’t have to.

Anyway, the crianza designation is next to meaningless for Joe Average in the US - who in the US goes out shopping looking for crianza? And I’m not knocking them - I’ve had a few at over 25 years and they were pretty good, but I think that will be decreasingly the case. In any event, it is a popular category at restaurants in Spain, so we’re likely to see it continue while at the same time there will be a proliferation of other names.

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

@Keith Levenberg

@Ian Fitzsimmons

These wines seem to age like Port.

What are good points of entry for the beginner, beyond what Eric mentions?

Ian - you need to try Pecina if you haven’t already. The 05 Reserva is a perfect one to try.

Merci. I see this everywhere in California; do you know if anyone in our 'hood carries it?

[Neal.Mollen]

GregT, while I “have” you here, I bought single bottles of LdH 84, 85, and 87 recently; do you have any guidance on these bottles? They are the first aged bottles (more than say 15 years or so) of LdH I have purchased. of I assume they are all as ready as they will ever be, and that decanting for sediment and drinking immediately thereafter is called for, but if you have any insight, I’d be happy to hear it.

[Ramon_C]

@GregT

the reason I think the crianza designation is stupid is that where else on the planet would you take your “worst” grapes, lock them in oak, and then require holding the bottles even longer before release? If the grapes are good enough to go through that, the producer will just hold the bottles a year longer and call it reserva and charge a few dollars more. In fact, that’s what Alejandro Fernández used to tell people to do with his Pesquera.

In most of Spain, the crianza requirement is six months in oak, which is also arbitrary, but in Rioja, RdD and Navarra it’s a year. That really makes very little sense today and as a result, people are putting out things with labels like “roble”, “barrica”, “joven” etc., which can be some great values although not in all cases. Nothing says they have to be inexpensive - it’s like Antinori and his Tignanello - he called it table wine but took great care in making it and charged accordingly. So those labels free people from the required aging regimens, and often indicate younger wines, but they don’t have to.

Anyway, the crianza designation is next to meaningless for Joe Average in the US - who in the US goes out shopping looking for crianza? And I’m not knocking them - I’ve had a few at over 25 years and they were pretty good, but I think that will be decreasingly the case. In any event, it is a popular category at restaurants in Spain, so we’re likely to see it continue while at the same time there will be a proliferation of other names.

It’s producer-dependent. For example, the Asimov-enamored LdH has the Cubillo vineyard for their crianza that is different from their Reserva. But in their case, and as I understand it, your argument of having a stupid level of designation would be more appropriate for their Reserva designation … i.e. a few more years in the cask and it turns into the more expensive Gran Reserva (which they say they only produce with their most excellent vintages).

I also think that there is the monetary/economic aspect of the designations. My thought is especially for producers using the same grapes for their crianza/reserva/GR wines, the flow of revenue is much more (for lack of better term and no pun intended) fluid with sellable wines at “consecutive” timelines from the same harvest.

Finally as I see it here in this thread, there is some demand for crianza … and we can’t always limit the wine-drinking world within our wineberserker forum , as who knows how much bigger the demand by the rest of the wine-buying world.

[Jay_Miller]

@Neal.Mollen

GregT, while I “have” you here, I bought single bottles of LdH 84, 85, and 87 recently; do you have any guidance on these bottles? They are the first aged bottles (more than say 15 years or so) of LdH I have purchased. of I assume they are all as ready as they will ever be, and that decanting for sediment and drinking immediately thereafter is called for, but if you have any insight, I’d be happy to hear it.

I opened an '85 Tondonia (purchased about 10 years ago when prices were more reasonable) a month or two ago and it seemed ready to go. No rush though. And certainly no need to drink immediately.

No experience with '84 or ’ 87.

[Neal.Mollen]

Thanks Jay

[Theodore_Anderson]

A recent '87 Tondonia benefited from a little air only in that it cleaned up and sweetened a bit over the course of the dinner. I’d say it was very ready to go.

[Neal.Mollen]

Yes, I should have said that these were all Tondonias. Thanks Theodore!

[Ramon_C]

It probably would also matter whether they were Reserva or Gran Reserva.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@GregT

…
Brian, et. al. - the reason I think the crianza designation is stupid is that where else on the planet would you take your “worst” grapes, lock them in oak, and then require holding the bottles even longer before release? If the grapes are good enough to go through that, the producer will just hold the bottles a year longer and call it reserva and charge a few dollars more. In fact, that’s what Alejandro Fernández used to tell people to do with his Pesquera.

In most of Spain, the crianza requirement is six months in oak, which is also arbitrary, but in Rioja, RdD and Navarra it’s a year. That really makes very little sense today and as a result, people are putting out things with labels like “roble”, “barrica”, “joven” etc., which can be some great values although not in all cases. Nothing says they have to be inexpensive - it’s like Antinori and his Tignanello - he called it table wine but took great care in making it and charged accordingly. So those labels free people from the required aging regimens, and often indicate younger wines, but they don’t have to.

Anyway, the crianza designation is next to meaningless for Joe Average in the US - who in the US goes out shopping looking for crianza? And I’m not knocking them - I’ve had a few at over 25 years and they were pretty good, but I think that will be decreasingly the case. In any event, it is a popular category at restaurants in Spain, so we’re likely to see it continue while at the same time there will be a proliferation of other names.

Thank you for the response and additional insight, Greg.

[Prashant_Jyothi]

Generally speaking what is main difference in taste between Crianza, Reserva and Gran? Is it mainly fruit less noticeable in Grans vs Crianza? I’ve only tasted Crianza and Reserva btu have a few unopened 04 Gran Reservas

[Neal.Mollen]

@Prashant Jyothi

Generally speaking what is main difference in taste between Crianza, Reserva and Gran? Is it mainly fruit less noticeable in Grans vs Crianza? I’ve only tasted Crianza and Reserva btu have a few unopened 04 Gran Reservas

all covered in the linked article