Nah! Having people like Jay around just encourages people to make these wines. I am not surprised that he feels the wine needs to be cellared for many, many years, so he can justify putting off actually having to drink the stuff.
Personally, I think they should be left for at least 50 years, so like Social Security and nuclear land fills, it will be problem for future generations to worry about. 
We need to spread them around to landfills across the globe. If too many end up in one place the weight of the bottles will tilt the Earth’s axis.
Keep your Burg thoughts to yourself.
It seems to me that the 100 dollar question (literally) is this: to those of you that feel that all these wines need is 10 years in the cellar, given those 10 years, do they actually justify their price tag? And, assuming that they do, would you pay the money again?
So, these bottles are the equivalent of a Christmas fruit cake.
LOL
![[winner.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/07ec25c9fd71159fe15d7f1ba5fad64e91238d0e.gif "winner"){kind=small}
I drank the 2002 in 2011 at my 60th Birthday party as part of a flight called, “Which of these is not a 100 point wine.” That was not. I think it was 98 or 99. I enjoyed it a lot. The wine is admittedly very heavily oaked early on, which is why it needs time. It developed a very interesting flavor that I likened to XO Cognac which I have noticed in a few other high end wines from Spain. One Cali winemaker who happens to love this wine (I will not out him but many here know who I am talking about) has suggested that it is the barrels they use in Spain that impart that flavor.
Is it worth the tariff? Is that an absolute or a relative question? Let’s compare it with, let’s say, 2012 Pontet Canet, which is about the same price. Or Cos d’Estournel. Or Pichon Comtesse. I would probably prefer the El Nido blind, but it is close, assuming all are drunk in 2022. It would depend on my mood. The 2009 Aldo Conterno Barolos are a bit more expensive and in 2022, it would again be a close call for me. YMMV.
Those sound like wines I, too, would hate.
Even if that oak fades or integrates somewhat overtime, it sounds as if they will never be balanced. While balance is not for everyone, I find more and more it is essential for my enjoyment of a wine, and one of the items in my definition of what makes an objectively good wine. (Yes, yes - I know there are many would argue there is not such thing.)
Sounds like a combination of alcohol and American oak flavors extracted by high alcohol.
A quick glance and it kind looked like “transvestites” there for a second.
So the 2012 Caymus shows some bottle variation?
Thx for the heads up.
Not trying to be rude but…Would it not be simpler and cheaper to just buy a bottle of XO Cognac and not have to wait 10 years?
As Lenny Bruce said, there are no dirty words, only dirty minds.
I suspect that you are correct, but it’s a flavor I like. It adds a plus to the overall flavor profile.
Had the 2008 of this on Friday night thanks to a swedish friend. This is way beyond anything a mean southern european palate can handle.
These wines require very unique skills in term of oak resolution and sweetness tolerance. Loren said that the oak is integrated into the 2004 but for all the people here (mostly not wine geek food amateurs) the oak here was totally out of the scale they knew in this 2008. Even my parents that are far from being part of the AFWE, couldn’t stand the oak and sweetness.
I honestly could not go beyond this wall of oak and sweetness and was not able to find anything else in this wine.
Like being unable to find aromas in an oversweet desert.
I guess due to saturation.
Didn’t change over the evening.
I believe that this is a very modern conception of wine, where nothing else than power, viscosity and sweetness matters and only in terms of intensity, more meaning better obviously.
I find these wines to be related only to physical impressions. Empty of anything else than a physical body.
Far from any cultural appreciation that has always been around in my wine world. Not cultural in an elitist meaning, cultural because related to terroir, regional traditions and foods, history of the estate and personality of the grower.
A strange but interesting experience.
I’m not sure if I’m more or less distressed now that I know I’m not the only one.
Given the wine in question, that would make it a sweet transvestite . . . . it’s not much a wine by the light of day, but by night it’s one hell of a spoofer! ![[grin.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/5/53ba06e9b6e4b370ae7e3d7b3702ad1bda0a2d8e.gif "grin"){kind=small}
OK, you guys have really gotten me wanting to try this, I am shivering with antici…
…pation.Maybe I will try it with a little meat loaf.
It’s much darker than Magenta.