The claim that Bordeaux is “priced toooooooooo high” or that “the value from there is looooooong gone” is, in my view, ill-informed (I typed a different word but decided to behave). If your imagination or attention span can only extend to a few dozen wines with labels everyone will recognize, then don’t buy bordeaux but don’t blame that narrow focus on the region. Bdx produces a huge (and I do mean huge) number of delicious wines comparably priced to (or lower priced than) any very nice barolo or premier cru burg or CdP or – heaven forbid – cal cab. Yes the firsts and the seconds have gotten too expensive for me to buy. So what?
Saying “I don’t buy burgundy because it is too expensive” is lazy. Yes, there are a ton of ridiculously priced burgs. But with a little – and I do mean a little – effort you can find oceans of well-made wines selling for reasonable prices. The same is even true (to an even greater degree, given the output of the reason) with bordeaux.
I’ll stop considering Bdx. purchases when I’m about 45, give or take a couple years. Bdx. pricing, however, has already brought my Bdx. purchasing to a virtual halt; that said, a quick glance at Napa Cab. pricing has me realizing that the Bdx. halt really makes no sense in that context!
I have a couple cases of 00s and a bottle or two of 03s. I still buy cabs like Monte Bello and Corison that require age, however.
The argument that you can still find French value if you are willing to continually move down the classification grades (sort of like walking down an escalator moving up) never resonated with me.
Good question - I think it’s a matter of degree. The high-end, traditionally styled clarets I continue to buy like Monte Bello and Corison are still available from the winery at under $100. Forget 1st Growth prices - I’ve noticed old standby Bordeaux like Pichon Baron pushing $200 now, with some first growth second labels like Carruades pushing $100.
In my mind there is still tons of value in BDX. You can easily find world class wines that will last 30,40,50 years in some cases. I bought a fair share of 2010, 13 cases total and the only one that broke the century mark was Leoville Barton @ $120. I can’t really find a handful of napa Cabernets that I would even consider aging for that amount of time. I think the pricing of luxury napa Cabernet is far more laughable than the recent Bordeaux pricing.
Another +1 to the 10’ GPL, also bought some large formats too.
Neal, I drank Bordeaux for a long time, appreciate it, understand the attachment and also the allure of continuing to find attractive values in that challenging market.
And I like Grand Puy. But, for my tastes, it’s not close to the wine that Ridge Monte Bello is or Corison Kronos is. I do see it as comparable quality to maybe Ridge Estate, but it’s nearly twice as expensive for me.
And … (this is where you get into my California bias), I can’t sift vineyard soil through my fingers, breath the air, taste grapes from the vines and new wine vintages from the barrels in Pauillac whenever I want - like I can here.
Aside from my California bias, I think that (as long as you avoid the wacky Napa Cults), value has not eroded here quite as far as it has in France.
That’s because you are holding on to that vestige from an 1855 classification! The wines being produced from many so-called lower classifications are substantially greater than what they were in the '70s and '80s. GPL is a perfect example.
I’d take many of these lower classified wines over a Cali Cab any day of the week. Popped a '93 Maya last night. One of the original Cults with a whopper rating from Uncle Bobs. What’s the street value these days? It was quite a nice Cab/Cab Franc blend, but nothing exceptional. A very vertical wine will little breadth. Crisp, pure fruit, but not much more. I’d take a GPL (5th Growth) over this Maya any day.
Ironically, we agree entirely on Ridge. But it’s the exception in Cali.
I understand and have no issue with that. I’m not trying to sell bdx. I completely get that you prefer CA. I am reacting solely to the idea that “I’m not buying bdx because the price is sooooooooo high” just because the top few labels have skyrocketed. That would be like saying I no longer buy CA cab because I can’t afford Screaming Eagle, Harlan and Schrader. (Those are CA cabs, right?)
You’ve hit the nail on the head in writing “I completely get that you prefer CA. I am reacting solely to the idea that “I’m not buying bdx because the price is sooooooooo high” just because the top few labels have skyrocketed. That would be like saying I no longer buy CA cab because I can’t afford Screaming Eagle, Harlan and Schrader. (Those are CA cabs, right?)”
The great growths of Bordeaux as vintage Port is to Port i.e., an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny part of production.
It is intellectually dishonest to dismiss “Bordeaux” based on the price of the great growths".
I haven’t had Diamond Creek in years. Phelps and Chappellet are quite good and have retained their value to a large degree. Mayacamas and Mount Eden are two more examples.
If one stops buying Bordeaux because one thinks it needs too much time, what about wines that age at least as long or longer? I don’t really buy much Bordeaux but that’s just because I like so many other wines so much more, regardless of price. I’ll happily drink Bdx if it’s poured, and I have a few bottles, but it’s not something I really devote much time to.
But extrapolating from this thread, I don’t know that one need stop buying ever.
Some wines aren’t too shabby at 10 years, even tho they may be better at 20, even better at 30, and better yet at 40 and even more. But that doesn’t mean they’re BAD at 10 years and they offer no enjoyment.
Wines from Barolo, Rioja, Barbaresco come to mind, all of which I’d usually rather drink than Bordeaux, all of which age at least as long or longer, but all of which are still good at 10, 12 or 15 years. Prime? I don’t know, but not to be dismissed.
Anyhow, you guys get depressing. You don’t need to focus on your inevitable deaths! Even if you’re 70, I say keep buying and plan on drinking the stuff. You gotta have goals! Keeps you young.
I would argue that the California/Bordeaux discussion is an age old one that involves perception clouded by personal history and emotional attachment. I love 'em both, but for me, it makes more sense to buy California. And I’ll probably continue to purchase great claret until I drop!
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