Barbaresco producer recommendations

[DougS]

If you haven’t gotten a handle on what style or styles you like, this thread is your friend.

Traditional vs. Modern Barolo / Barbaresco

In addition to the obvious suggestion of Produttori, I’m a big fan of the wines of Castello di Neive. I think they’re extremely well valued.

[Chae_Yi]

I’ve been becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Sottimano.

But yes, I’m going with the majority, here the Produttori is your friend.

John Morris’ reco for DeForville, I will also second.

[Andres_S_k_o_j_e]

as mentioned before, Produttori del Barbaresco. Their “regular” Barbaresco is often great value and their Riserva´s are tremendous

[Oliver_McCrum]

@Brian King

Do any producers drink reasonably well early? I’m pretty familiar w/ the Barolo side, but much less side on Barbaresco. I find that even some of the most traditional Barolo (Rinaldi, Bartolo, etc) drink pretty well for 1-2 years after release before they go away and hide… but my experience with young Cortese, Paitin & Produturri’s SV’s is they are pretty tough to drink. Definitely more of a traditional lean but can appreciate a good modern producer (Sandrone comes to mind, much more so than Altare).

If you are looking for good Nebbiolo that can be drunk earlier than Barolo, you might consider Northern Piedmont. The wines tend to be very drinkable when young, and they are still relatively reasonable. Also the best wines from the Roero.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Bob Hughes

In addition, there are a number of retailers (Chambers Street immediately comes to mind) that have older vintages in stock if you want to check out the wines with a little age on them to see the difference time makes.

In January, got a 1970 and 1979 from Chambers Street. I look forward to trying them.

[Thomas_Keim]

@D@v!d P@rt@!n

Cigliuti Serraboella, just north of $50
Cigliuti Vigne Erte, a bit south of $50

Love, love, love Chee-ooooti -

[Jay_T]

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

The same holds true from a quality standpoint. Again, setting aside Giacosa (sui generis in many ways), my impression is that hardly anyone would rank a single current Barbaresco producer in the top 10 producers in the Langhe. Does anybody – other than maybe Bob Hughes – think that Produttori or Sottimano ranks with the Conternos, the Mascarellos, Gaja, G. Rinaldi, Vietti, Cappellano, or Sandrone? For me, I’d take it further: does any Barbaresco producer other than Giacosa make better wines than Vajra, Brovia, Burlotto, Cavallotto, Massolino, Elio Grasso, or Elio Altare?

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

My two favorite Barbaresco producers are Sottimano (all of them) and Cigliuti (Serraboella). Have visited both and love these wines. Nice to see they’re priced so well, too…though I don’t know where?

I was never a fan of Produttori , as I found it too rustic for my tastes. But…I understand since I visited (2004) they’ve improved their winemaking equipment and facilities and the wines are much improved. I haven’t had any of them, though.

I think there’s an “L” sound in the name though…subtle but there…

[Ian_Sutton]

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

The same holds true from a quality standpoint. Again, setting aside Giacosa (sui generis in many ways), my impression is that hardly anyone would rank a single current Barbaresco producer in the top 10 producers in the Langhe. Does anybody – other than maybe Bob Hughes – think that Produttori or Sottimano ranks with the Conternos, the Mascarellos, Gaja, G. Rinaldi, Vietti, Cappellano, or Sandrone? For me, I’d take it further: does any Barbaresco producer other than Giacosa make better wines than Vajra, Brovia, Burlotto, Cavallotto, Massolino, Elio Grasso, or Elio Altare?

Is thinner a problem? I’m uneasy about the tendency for rising alc% that seems to have now achieved 14.5% average and wines that appear ever darker each year. I buy nebbiolo as much for the fragrance and ethereal delicacy at maturity and beyond. I’d be quite happy with less purple and more red, and a degree less alcohol, plus a little less focus on softening the tannins for more appeal on release.

That so few producers are recommended, may be down to that drive for ‘only the best’, or at least one from the ‘top 10’. I don’t feel comfortable with this desire to rank wineries or wines, as if it’s a sporting competition, or it is important to our ‘status’ that we are seen drinking ‘only the best’. There are many I like that offer plenty of interest for a reasonably modest price, though I don’t see an awful lot of appetite for such wines here like Giuseppe Nada, La Ca’ Nova, Cascina Saria, or even Albino Rocca. Cantina del Pino seem to get some (IMO) deserved respect, though I have a sneaky feeling they may have been less well known without the family links to P. del B

Likewise there are some fine value producers in the Barolo villages, that aren’t in the reputed top 10 or even top 20. Again, I’m happy to enjoy the likes of Boasso, Mauro Molino, Marcarini (who do get some coverage here) and Serradenari.

There are absolutely stacks of good producers in the region - just look at the wonderful list that Pat Burton put together, which surprised me of how many were new to me, despite having holidayed in the area a number of times. I would warmly encourage people to take a punt on a lesser known wine every now and again. I think you’ll be rewarded, not least because the coverage of the big names drives their prices up, but not so these less well known producers.

regards
Ian

[John_Morris]

@Ian Sutton

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

Is thinner a problem? I’m uneasy about the tendency for rising alc% that seems to have now achieved 14.5% average and wines that appear ever darker each year. I buy nebbiolo as much for the fragrance and ethereal delicacy at maturity and beyond. I’d be quite happy with less purple and more red, and a degree less alcohol, plus a little less focus on softening the tannins for more appeal on release.

Jay is saying the bench is thinner, not the wine. Perhaps that’s an exclusively American term. It’s a sports metaphor – how many strong players you have.

[John_Morris]

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

The same holds true from a quality standpoint. Again, setting aside Giacosa (sui generis in many ways), my impression is that hardly anyone would rank a single current Barbaresco producer in the top 10 producers in the Langhe. Does anybody – other than maybe Bob Hughes – think that Produttori or Sottimano ranks with the Conternos, the Mascarellos, Gaja, G. Rinaldi, Vietti, Cappellano, or Sandrone? For me, I’d take it further: does any Barbaresco producer other than Giacosa make better wines than Vajra, Brovia, Burlotto, Cavallotto, Massolino, Elio Grasso, or Elio Altare?

I think you’re basically right. A couple of factors are worth noting, though. First, Barbaresco production is only about 200,000 cases annually versus 500,000 for Barolo. Second, the Produttori produces about 42,000 of the total, or 21%.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

@John Morris

@Ian Sutton

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

Is thinner a problem? I’m uneasy about the tendency for rising alc% that seems to have now achieved 14.5% average and wines that appear ever darker each year. I buy nebbiolo as much for the fragrance and ethereal delicacy at maturity and beyond. I’d be quite happy with less purple and more red, and a degree less alcohol, plus a little less focus on softening the tannins for more appeal on release.

Jay is saying the bench is thinner, not the wine. Perhaps that’s an exclusively American term. It’s a sports metaphor – how many strong players you have.

I read it and didn’t understand it, so I didn’t respond myself. Apparently, it didn’t stop Ian. He didn’t even realize he had no clue what he was responding to…so he “rather wasted” peoples’ time reading it.

[Ian_Sutton]

Thanks for your sarcasm Stuart.

[Chris_V]

@Doug Schulman

In addition to the obvious suggestion of Produttori, I’m a big fan of the wines of Castello di Neive. I think they’re extremely well valued.

+1

[Bob_Hughes]

Jay T, when have you ever seen me rank Produttori as an elite producer? I think they are great QPR, but that doesn’t mean they run with Giacosa or Giacomo Conterno?

[Ian_Sutton]

@John Morris

@Ian Sutton

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

Is thinner a problem? I’m uneasy about the tendency for rising alc% that seems to have now achieved 14.5% average and wines that appear ever darker each year. I buy nebbiolo as much for the fragrance and ethereal delicacy at maturity and beyond. I’d be quite happy with less purple and more red, and a degree less alcohol, plus a little less focus on softening the tannins for more appeal on release.

Jay is saying the bench is thinner, not the wine. Perhaps that’s an exclusively American term. It’s a sports metaphor – how many strong players you have.

Jon
Thanks for the clarification - I think I was reading a little too much into the context of the rest of the post (about ‘top’ producers) and the generally held perception that Barbaresco is a lighter wine than Barolo.
regards
Ian

[Jay_T]

@John Morris

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

The same holds true from a quality standpoint. Again, setting aside Giacosa (sui generis in many ways), my impression is that hardly anyone would rank a single current Barbaresco producer in the top 10 producers in the Langhe. Does anybody – other than maybe Bob Hughes – think that Produttori or Sottimano ranks with the Conternos, the Mascarellos, Gaja, G. Rinaldi, Vietti, Cappellano, or Sandrone? For me, I’d take it further: does any Barbaresco producer other than Giacosa make better wines than Vajra, Brovia, Burlotto, Cavallotto, Massolino, Elio Grasso, or Elio Altare?

I think you’re basically right. A couple of factors are worth noting, though. First, Barbaresco production is only about 200,000 cases annually versus 500,000 for Barolo. Second, the Produttori produces about 42,000 of the total, or 21%.

Yes, the relative size of the Produttori is an interesting factor in Barbaresco. I was also unfair not to point out that Gaja’s wines are mostly Barbarescos. That said, the two best producers of Barbaresco also make Barolo of comparable prestige, and from there it is a big drop off. Even accounting for the fact that Barbaresco is 40% of the size of Barolo, it is striking that most people would only list two Barbaresco producers among the top 15-20 producers of Nebbiolo, and both (Giacosa and Gaja) also produce Barolo.

[Jay_T]

@Bob Hughes

Jay T, when have you ever seen me rank Produttori as an elite producer? I think they are great QPR, but that doesn’t mean they run with Giacosa or Giacomo Conterno?

Sorry Bob. That was strictly from memory, and I apparently have misrepresented you. I recall from back in the day when Bill K. and Bill B. were still around debating Nebbiolo producers that the “old-timers” like the Bills regarded Produttori as generally middling, with little winemaking talent (at least until recently), but that there was one pretty experienced Nebbiolo drinker who disagreed. I thought it was you but must have mis-remembered.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

@Ian Sutton

Thanks for your sarcasm Stuart.

Except I wasn’t being sarcastic, Ian, though I was trying to be amusing and giving you the same reaction you gave me on the “aeration” thread. And, it did “rather waste” my time…as I had actually read it and was wondering if you were trying to be funny or something about “thin”. I hadn’t realized you just wrote without understanding the post you were responding to.

At least you recognized that he wasn’t talking about those “benches” in your Parliament over there being too “thin”.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

@Jay T.

@John Morris

@Jay T.

Does anyone else have the impression that the Barbaresco bench is MUCH thinner than Barolo? I know it’s a small region, but even on a relative basis, it seems like there are only 4-5 producers in Barbaresco that people regularly recommend. Apart from Giacosa, it’s basically Produttori, Sottimano, Roagna, and then a big drop off, with a smattering of Castello di Nieve, De Forville, Paitin, and Cortese. I know a few others have been mentioned, but I’ve mostly never heard of them, and I’m pretty familiar with Langhe producers.

The same holds true from a quality standpoint. Again, setting aside Giacosa (sui generis in many ways), my impression is that hardly anyone would rank a single current Barbaresco producer in the top 10 producers in the Langhe. Does anybody – other than maybe Bob Hughes – think that Produttori or Sottimano ranks with the Conternos, the Mascarellos, Gaja, G. Rinaldi, Vietti, Cappellano, or Sandrone? For me, I’d take it further: does any Barbaresco producer other than Giacosa make better wines than Vajra, Brovia, Burlotto, Cavallotto, Massolino, Elio Grasso, or Elio Altare?

I think you’re basically right. A couple of factors are worth noting, though. First, Barbaresco production is only about 200,000 cases annually versus 500,000 for Barolo. Second, the Produttori produces about 42,000 of the total, or 21%.

Yes, the relative size of the Produttori is an interesting factor in Barbaresco. I was also unfair not to point out that Gaja’s wines are mostly Barbarescos. That said, the two best producers of Barbaresco also make Barolo of comparable prestige, and from there it is a big drop off. Even accounting for the fact that Barbaresco is 40% of the size of Barolo, it is striking that most people would only list two Barbaresco producers among the top 15-20 producers of Nebbiolo, and both (Giacosa and Gaja) also produce Barolo.

I’ve long thought of the two regions much like the red wines of Burgundy’s Cote de Beaune and Cote de Nuits…people think that the “best” (I don’t rank; I just have my favorites) reds come from the Cote de Nuits and , therefore, the “best” producers do too. Is this somewhat accurate? Of course, the payoff (ie, the price they can get for the different wines) controls the quality of the equipment, etc…so it’s a vicious circle in both places for red wines. I think there are other analogies to this grouping, too…the “bigger” wines get the better esteem and the QPR is, therefore, tricky.

Or…am I off on this…?