My mistake on the 2008 Giacosa, in both mentions.
The sommelier who poured the wines for the blind tasting where the 2008 Bruno Giacosa Santo Stefano was included - it showed very poorly - has let me know just now after I contacted him that it was a white label in the tasting, not a red as he had indicated previously. My mistake in not asking to see the bottles after the tasting.
Come on, Levi. First, no one judges Giacosa by his base wines. Second, the last non-single-vineyard Barbaresco I am aware of is his 2008 which was entirely from estate grapes. To my knowledge, every Giacosa Barolo since 1999 has been entirely from estate grapes, and there have been at least 6 such vintages for the base Barolo.
That’s what you get for trusting a sommelier. 
I could be off-base here, but I think some of what’s driving these (frankly ludicrous) attacks on Levi Dalton’s tasting experience and well-researched personal opinions are that folks are confusing (a) Levi Dalton, the nationally-renowned (maybe world-renowned?) NY sommelier and host of I’ll Drink to That who has devoted his life to wine (including an emphasis on the wines of Piedmont), with (b) Levi Pinsky, the Los Angeles real estate lawyer, a passionate wine amateur.
I’m the latter Levi, and I would have hoped that even if I had made sweeping claims about Barbaresco that the Board’s “big boys” disagreed with, I wouldn’t be belittled with the vitriolic posts directed at Levi Dalton; but I guess that’s too much to hope for on a board where everybody feels the need to be the smartest guy in the room.
FWIW: Levi D - I’m a huge fan of your show and very much appreciate your informative posts around here and elsewhere.
The only Levis I care about…are the ones in blue denim.
Levi D, Levi P…I only hear the corduroy.
Dark ones hide the Barbaresco stains better.
We knew that the whole day, but had the manners to refrain from comments 
Thank for the valuable info about the under the radar producers.
Only thing missing in this thread is some long posts from Bill Klapp
I wouldn’t be belittled with the vitriolic posts directed at Levi Dalton;<<<<<<
Vitriolic posts ![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
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Because of few of us have had the temerity to politely question Levi’s star rankings?
I’m sorry, but I thought this was a wine board where people gathered to discuss this kind of stuff. I don’t know anything about Levi Dalton (in fact, I was totally unaware of him until his post). I have, however, been collecting and drinking Barolo passionately for the past 30+ years, and when I see a rating scale that basically says “Produttori is better than Giacosa” and “Musso is “comparable” (my paraphrase) to Giacosa”, I have to admit that I’m more than a little surprised, and would also say (as I did) that that certainly wouldn’t square with my drinking experiences.
Does that kind of questioning count as vitriolic on the West Coast?
+1
Seriously? You think it is bad manners to point out a factual mistake? This thread is not just for very knowledgeable people like you, Claus.
And Bill is not posting because he can’t. He would if he could, and they would be long.
FWIW I know and respect Levi Dalton. I also fully respect that he said his list was his preference, and I believe no one can tell him he is wrong to have those preferences even if they have different ones.
I have drunk serious Nebbiolo with Bob H and that list of luminaries who names he dropped. I remember well that at one of those dinner, every person but me picked the 1978 Monfortino as their wine of the night. I rated it 97-100 points, but it still fell on my list below 5 different Giacosas we had that night. IMO Giacosa is the greatest winemaker in the world, but I am totally comfortable with others having other opinions. I don’t get how anyone can even get agitated at someone else’s opinions about wine. Wanna argue politics? OK, our future might depend on it. Wine? Don’t like what I like? Good, more for me.
I appreciated Levi’s list and don’t know any of the folks here, except through this board. What drew the strong responses was that Levi:
(a) was mistaken about which 2008 he drank (the one he said he drank was never made).
(b) called Giacosa “a negotiant,” which as I understand it, he never was. He didn’t buy wine and bottle it; he had contracts on vineyards owned by others and made wine from the fruit, with significant control over the vineyard.
(c) was wrong in his claims that Giacosa currently makes most or many of his wines from vineyards he doesn’t own.
You’re right - maybe I typed too quickly and “vitriolic” wasn’t the right adjective. But I didn’t read your tone (or others’ tones) to be quite as mensch-y as you might believe it to be (or have intended, for all I know).
Maybe it’s a coastal thing, but in my 12-sh years on the East Coast, I always found East Coast folk to be more friendly than out here. In any event, none of us hold a candle to the Canadians, so l’chaim to them!
Hmm. You could have provided a bit more color on your list just using the time you chose instead to use typing out defensive posts claiming you are too busy to participate. To be clear, I was and am genuinely interested in your list. I don’t think you are wrong to like the wines you do. I don’t know much about you, but I understand you have a lot of expertise in Italian wine built up over the last 10 years or so. I just wanted to understand better where you were coming from given how unusual (in the literal sense of the word) your ranked list is. I was hoping to learn something new.
But if you are more interested in arguing over whether you have sufficient experience to make authoritative declarations, let’s be real here. In addition to evidencing a fair amount of confusion over your own claims about Giacosa, you’re what, 40 years old? As a simple matter of arithmetic, you don’t have close to the experience of observing Barbaresco mature over time that Bob Hughes does. In fact, unless you were thoughtfully drinking Giacosa red labels when you were 5 years old, you literally have none. This fact is pretty relevant in light of Bob’s earlier email and the observation made by John Morris that young Giacosa often presents very differently than mature Giacosa.
More info on Levi Dalton
As I said about a page or so ago, I have a lot of respect for the knowledge of both Bob and Levi and so hope that we can get back to a discussion of the relative merits of producers rather than a pissing contest of who knows more than whom. As I have read this thread, if there is Vitriol, it is on this point of who knows more than whom. Views on producers certainly seem fair game, as does basis for such views.
I do remember that night where you “dissed” the Monfortino, Ken - some absurd claim about the '78 and '89 Rionda Riservas being 101 or 102 point wines, if my memory serves ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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And we can’t argue politics here - there is a separate folder for that!
Hi Ken. Not seriously, very, very TIC. Sorry it could be concieved otherwise.
Thanks for your post. Great info as always.
Btw the 78 Rionda is 1000 point
What’s the relationship between Rivella Serafino and Enrico Serafino, if any? Also, just noticed that I’m supposed to have received a bottle of a '78 Serafino Barolo, would this be Enrico?
All dem Eyetalians look the same to me.
“A long career”? Isn’t this something they used to say about people who are about to retire? 
I assume none. In the case of Serafino Rivella, Serafino is the name and Rivella the family name.
For Enrico Serafino, the latter is the family name, so no relation.
Serafino Rivella has vineyards only in Barbaresco (only Montestefano, I think).
Levi, what I don’t understand is that you list one example of an underwhelming tasting experience with a Giacosa wine above, perhaps there have been more? You also speak of numerous great experiences with Giacosa Barbarescos and Barolos over the years. If one wine didn’t move you, especially a young one at that, I don’t quite get how that would merit lowering someone like Giacosa to 2-4 star producer? Every winery/producer is due to have an off vintage every so often. Was 2008 while Scaglione was not working the property? If so, that would go a long way to explaining why Giacosa may have underperformed in this vintage. Not questioning your palate or reputation, just don’t follow your line of thinking.
I have to say that Levi’s discussion with Renato Vacca was incredibly interesting. I learned so much about the vineyards and wine making of Barbaresco. One thing all of his interviews have in common is how few words he says.
I look forward to more discussions about Piemonte on I’ll Drink to That.