Beat Bollinger Special Cuvee in Roughly the Same Style and Price

[Fred_Daniels]

For the record, one of the best 10 wines of my life was a mag of NV Bollinger from the sixties that was consumed in 1985…I can still taste it. Most of the Bollingers I have consumed since have been in pale comparison to that experience, and I mean literally. 2002 RD, 1996 RD, various vintage Grande Annee versions, and certainly the NV all seem to have a hollow spot in the palate. I can pick out the pristine oxydative notes on top of quality bubbles, but there always seems to be something missing as it crosses the palate…lack of concentration or richness towards the finish.

Given the first statement above, I have always looked for mags of NV to age and not only do I find them rare, I find them consistently expensive, to the point that I would gladly purchase other wines that I know would age well or give predictable satisfaction. I suspect the incredible mag I had was with base wine from '62 or '64, so had the great basic materials, but I also think the winemaking and style at that time at Bollinger was more conducive to creating an exceptional product (at all levels/price points) that was consumed at that graduation dinner. To make a point, the wines were Bolly NV mag, '66 Cheval Blanc, '70 Margaux and '28 Coutet for three people, and we finished the mag.

Maybe with the latest string of “OK” or better vintages of 2012, 2013 and 2015 for a base wine it’s time to experiment again with NV mags.

[DougS]

All very interesting and useful responses. The general gist seems to support why we asked the question in the first place - there are lots of better (IMO) champagnes at a similar price point, but no, or at least few, better champagnes that have a roughly similar style. Quite interesting.

If it can’t be done, it can’t be done. I’ll just have to open two bottles of Boulard instead.

Interesting. I don’t agree that there are lots of better Champagnes at a similar price point. I would go so far as to say I think Bollinger is one of the standouts. I’d be very interested to know what you think is better around this price. Maybe I’ll try something interesting and change my mind. Or maybe we just disagree, but I’m curious. Also, how much do you like the Bollinger style? I totally understand that some people don’t prefer it. It’s very distinctive. I think which disgorgement you have can make a big difference with this wine. What are your thoughts on that? I remember one from maybe about 3 years ago that was really exceptional.

Sure, easy. Without even thinking too much about it or checking price, though I think these are all roughly equivalent:

Diebolt-Vallois Prestige obliterates it, objectively in my opinion, especially in magnum
Rodez Crayeres
Boulard Murgiers and Grand Montagne (or whatever it’s called now)
Pierre Peters Cuvee Reserve
Hebrart Blanc de Blancs, though it’s close
Lilbert Perle and even the entry level
De Sousa Cuvee de Caudelies blows it out of the water
Larmandier-Bernier Longitude and Latitude
Several Special Club vintage bottlings are roughly similar in price if you buy in France, and are far superior
Given time, I’m sure I’d come up with more…

And for the record I LOVE the Bollinger style. I own a great deal of Grande Annee, including rose, RD and even VVF. That’s why I asked the question in the first place - because I adore the style, but think the Special Cuvee isn’t as good as it should be. I think it should be delivering at a higher level than it does.

I don’t know which disgorgement this particular bottle was, as it didn’t say and the QR code gave me nothing. But I’ve had a number of different disgorgements with plenty of age in many cases.

Thanks. There are a few here I haven’t had and am interested to try. Pierre Peters and Hebrart BdB are both wines I love, very much digorgement dependent with Peters (even more so than with Bollinger). They are also in that top tier of value, in my mind, but not better than Bollinger NV. I’m going to make a note with a few of these others and see what I think.

[DougS]

Good price. Best I have seen it in Minneapolis is $60 lately.

Yeah, $40 is a crazy price that I would guess came from a distributor closeout. ~$60 seems to have been the generally low price for a while now, and I think it’s well worth it.

For the WDC extreme coupon crowd, they usually have it for $59.99, making it a great deal even with the $20 off $50s. Using the $50 off $150s and combined with addition cash back (10-20% RMN), definitely well worth it.

Can you translate those abbreviations for me?

[joejolesch]

Yeah, $40 is a crazy price that I would guess came from a distributor closeout. ~$60 seems to have been the generally low price for a while now, and I think it’s well worth it.

For the WDC extreme coupon crowd, they usually have it for $59.99, making it a great deal even with the $20 off $50s. Using the $50 off $150s and combined with addition cash back (10-20% RMN), definitely well worth it.

Can you translate those abbreviations for me?

WDC = wine dot com, RMN = Retail Me Not. The first post on the online deals thread has the current active offers: Best deal/coupon for on-line wine shopping - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Interesting. I don’t agree that there are lots of better Champagnes at a similar price point. I would go so far as to say I think Bollinger is one of the standouts. I’d be very interested to know what you think is better around this price. Maybe I’ll try something interesting and change my mind. Or maybe we just disagree, but I’m curious. Also, how much do you like the Bollinger style? I totally understand that some people don’t prefer it. It’s very distinctive. I think which disgorgement you have can make a big difference with this wine. What are your thoughts on that? I remember one from maybe about 3 years ago that was really exceptional.

Sure, easy. Without even thinking too much about it or checking price, though I think these are all roughly equivalent:

Diebolt-Vallois Prestige obliterates it, objectively in my opinion, especially in magnum
Rodez Crayeres
Boulard Murgiers and Grand Montagne (or whatever it’s called now)
Pierre Peters Cuvee Reserve
Hebrart Blanc de Blancs, though it’s close
Lilbert Perle and even the entry level
De Sousa Cuvee de Caudelies blows it out of the water
Larmandier-Bernier Longitude and Latitude
Several Special Club vintage bottlings are roughly similar in price if you buy in France, and are far superior
Given time, I’m sure I’d come up with more…

And for the record I LOVE the Bollinger style. I own a great deal of Grande Annee, including rose, RD and even VVF. That’s why I asked the question in the first place - because I adore the style, but think the Special Cuvee isn’t as good as it should be. I think it should be delivering at a higher level than it does.

I don’t know which disgorgement this particular bottle was, as it didn’t say and the QR code gave me nothing. But I’ve had a number of different disgorgements with plenty of age in many cases.

Thanks. There are a few here I haven’t had and am interested to try. Pierre Peters and Hebrart BdB are both wines I love, very much digorgement dependent with Peters (even more so than with Bollinger). They are also in that top tier of value, in my mind, but not better than Bollinger NV. I’m going to make a note with a few of these others and see what I think.

Report back, I’ll be curious. So much of this is taste dependent, of course, but a few on that list above are, I believe, as close to objectively better as you can get in a subjective medium. The Diebolt Prestige is simply a stunning NV - 100% grand cru chardonnay from Cramant (used to be all Cramant, now has some Chouilly and Le Mesnil-sur-Oger fruit) and is a blend of 3 vintages. It sees steel fermentation, goes through malo, and the reserve wines are aged in old large 4000 L oak foudres. It spends a minimum of 3 years on lees. It’s an incredible value.

[YaniSkarlatov]

Hi Sarah,
Egly-Ouriet Brut Tradition.
It has occured to me you’re an enthusiast of their rose so that’s an easy one - better, however somewhat more expensive and difficult to procure.

[John_Kight]

…on the Bollinger SC - it’s great but also somewhat too rich and creamy, which impresses on the first glass, and tends to tire me as I keep drinking it. I think wine is slightly overdosed for my taste.

This is my perspective too…the combination of the rich/creamy oxidative character with the sweetness is too much. If only the sweetness were significantly lower, I don’t think I’d find the richness too much. But together it is too much. I enjoy the first glass, but no more.

[Michael_S_Monie]

…on the Bollinger SC - it’s great but also somewhat too rich and creamy, which impresses on the first glass, and tends to tire me as I keep drinking it. I think wine is slightly overdosed for my taste.

This is my perspective too…the combination of the rich/creamy oxidative character with the sweetness is too much. If only the sweetness were significantly lower, I don’t think I’d find the richness too much. But together it is too much. I enjoy the first glass, but no more.

How long has it been since you’ve had it? If it’s been awhile, you might be surprised.

[Michael_O_Brien]

It is our go to NV. I bought several cases of it last year when it was offered at $39.99 per bottle. Hard to pass up. Now if that offer would just come around again, I could restock.

Good price. Best I have seen it in Minneapolis is $60 lately.

Yeah, $40 is a crazy price that I would guess came from a distributor closeout. ~$60 seems to have been the generally low price for a while now, and I think it’s well worth it.

Envoyer March 2020. I stocked up.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Hi Sarah,
Egly-Ouriet Brut Tradition.
It has occured to me you’re an enthusiast of their rose so that’s an easy one - better, however somewhat more expensive and difficult to procure.

Better I’d agree. In the same style, less so, but obviously not in the crisp citrusy camp, either. I don’t buy the Brut Tradition, as I’d rather pay up for the V.P. We have a lot of that in the cellar. Sadly, I’ve been unable to source magnums of any of the Egly line-up.

[Neal.Mollen]

Good price. Best I have seen it in Minneapolis is $60 lately.

Yeah, $40 is a crazy price that I would guess came from a distributor closeout. ~$60 seems to have been the generally low price for a while now, and I think it’s well worth it.

Envoyer March 2020. I stocked up.

Woodland Hills and Wine Library both have it for $47.

[dbailey]

For me, by far and away the best buy at the moment if you can find it is the lanson extra age. Not sure it’s entirely the same style as bolly sc since it’s no mlf and is a little fresher (in a very good way imho) but it is 60% pn. You can find it in the uk for c. £40 all in which is absolutely nuts for the quality. I’ve been backing up the truck whenever I can and every bottle (6 in the last month or so) has been fantastic so far.

Didn’t think it was available in mags but there is a listing on wine searcher at rwc in ca. I would take every one they had if I lived in the USA!

[J.Vizuete]

I didn’t see Roederer brut premier NV mentioned here. Its around 40% PN, 40 chard, 20 PM. Aged for 3 years prior to disgorgement.

Its not exactly the same style (this tends toward mineral and crisp fruit rather than the toastier, rounder style of the Bolly (forgive my generalizing here). But, it does have some of the same richness and length. Widely available in magnum, at or below your price (I’ve purchased halves <$20 recently) and a nice one to tuck away in the cellar for current or future use.

[William_Kelley]

Alexandre Filaine Cuvee Speciale. The winemaker, Fabrice Glass, used to work for Bollinger.

There are plenty of nice wines mentioned on this thread, but to me, this is the only thing cited so far that is actually reminiscent of the Bollinger style - and, not surprisingly, because Gass worked at Bollinger and makes the wines the old-fashioned way: old Bollinger barrels, some dating back to the 1920s; three rackings; isinglass fining; cane sugar and old wine for liqueur at disgorgement, which is by hand.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Alexandre Filaine Cuvee Speciale. The winemaker, Fabrice Glass, used to work for Bollinger.

There are plenty of nice wines mentioned on this thread, but to me, this is the only thing cited so far that is actually reminiscent of the Bollinger style - and, not surprisingly, because Gass worked at Bollinger and makes the wines the old-fashioned way: old Bollinger barrels, some dating back to the 1920s; three rackings; isinglass fining; cane sugar and old wine for liqueur at disgorgement, which is by hand.

I have read about, but never tasted any Filaine wines. I have access to the DMY, though, and will try and include some in my next order.

[Jim_Stewart]

Alexandre Filaine Cuvee Speciale. The winemaker, Fabrice Glass, used to work for Bollinger.

There are plenty of nice wines mentioned on this thread, but to me, this is the only thing cited so far that is actually reminiscent of the Bollinger style - and, not surprisingly, because Gass worked at Bollinger and makes the wines the old-fashioned way: old Bollinger barrels, some dating back to the 1920s; three rackings; isinglass fining; cane sugar and old wine for liqueur at disgorgement, which is by hand.

Jim:
William & Brad:

[Scott_Brunson]

Interesting. I love Bolly and I love Vilmart, but I would never think of them as stylistically similar.

Time to do a side by side.

report those results!

Please

[William_Kelley]

Alexandre Filaine Cuvee Speciale. The winemaker, Fabrice Glass, used to work for Bollinger.

There are plenty of nice wines mentioned on this thread, but to me, this is the only thing cited so far that is actually reminiscent of the Bollinger style - and, not surprisingly, because Gass worked at Bollinger and makes the wines the old-fashioned way: old Bollinger barrels, some dating back to the 1920s; three rackings; isinglass fining; cane sugar and old wine for liqueur at disgorgement, which is by hand.

I have read about, but never tasted any Filaine wines. I have access to the DMY, though, and will try and include some in my next order.

You should! Visiting there last month was a revelation. I went to Bollinger right after, to do a vertical back to 1947, which was very interesting, too.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

There are plenty of nice wines mentioned on this thread, but to me, this is the only thing cited so far that is actually reminiscent of the Bollinger style - and, not surprisingly, because Gass worked at Bollinger and makes the wines the old-fashioned way: old Bollinger barrels, some dating back to the 1920s; three rackings; isinglass fining; cane sugar and old wine for liqueur at disgorgement, which is by hand.

I have read about, but never tasted any Filaine wines. I have access to the DMY, though, and will try and include some in my next order.

You should! Visiting there last month was a revelation. I went to Bollinger right after, to do a vertical back to 1947, which was very interesting, too.

I had the opportunity to try a 2007 Filaine Sensuum Vertigo at Etxebarri yesterday. It was stunningly good. Thank you, I never would have chosen it with this exchange.

[William_Kelley]

I have read about, but never tasted any Filaine wines. I have access to the DMY, though, and will try and include some in my next order.

You should! Visiting there last month was a revelation. I went to Bollinger right after, to do a vertical back to 1947, which was very interesting, too.

I had the opportunity to try a 2007 Filaine Sensuum Vertigo at Etxebarri yesterday. It was stunningly good. Thank you, I never would have chosen it with this exchange.

Delighted to hear that!