Best Winemaker

[David_Bu3ker]

it is of course not meant to be a scientific or definitive answer. But MJ is better than LeBron scientifically and definitively!

Yet you didn’t answer the question…

Sometimes people ask questions because they don’t think they know the answer. I think that occasionally happens still even today!

When I first joined this forum some people told me about certain producers and sometimes said a given producer is not as good since the winemaker left and so on. I assume some people know many winemakers. I know only a few. I am curious if anyone thinks some given winemaker or winemakers are really the best at their field.

I was talking about MVP!

[Joseph_Grassa]

Yet you didn’t answer the question…

Sometimes people ask questions because they don’t think they know the answer. I think that occasionally happens still even today!

When I first joined this forum some people told me about certain producers and sometimes said a given producer is not as good since the winemaker left and so on. I assume some people know many winemakers. I know only a few. I am curious if anyone thinks some given winemaker or winemakers are really the best at their field.

I was talking about MVP!

the player most like MJ?

[David_Bu3ker]

But just to throw some names around:

David Ramey
Klaus Peter Keller
Laurent Champs

[Casey_Hartlip]

A great winemaker can’t be a one trick pony, they have to have many skillz. Its much easier to make a 100 point wine when you have 100 point fruit. The true warriors are able to fix broken wines and bring them back from the dead.

[Chris_Seiber]

It’s basically impossible to separate the winemaker from the vineyard sources and wineries. Do DRC and Haut Brion have the best winemakers in the world? What if Joe Davis or Marcus Goodfellow became the winemakers at those estates? What if the DRC and Haut Brion winemakers (whoever they are) started wineries in Santa Barbara and Willamette Valley, how much better or worse would they do than others who are there already?

Having said that, we all know many excellent winemakers through our journey. I wouldn’t know where to begin listing names, and I’d certainly leave many off.

Maybe one way to think of it is this: what winemakers do I know of, where I’d be certain or almost certain to want to dive into a brand new project of theirs in a new (good quality) region? If Russell Bevan (again sort of randomly selecting the name of well-regarded winemakers on this board) moved to Puente Alto, Columbia River Valley or Margaret River and started over making cabernets from there, would you say “I’m totally in on that?” If Jean-Louis Chave packed up and moved to Paso Robles or Barossa Valley and started making syrah/shiraz, would you be first in line to buy it? Making reasonable assumptions about price and vineyard sites and all.

Don’t we have such examples of winemakers leaving or joining different or varied vineyards? At least enough to make our own subjective assumptions of their impact?

There are certainly some, but many more others who have not. And it’s the furthest thing from a level playing field, in terms of the wineries, price points, vineyard sources where different winemakers have gotten to run the show.

I guess you could have the equivalent of one of those stupid cooking reality TV contest shows, where you get 10 of the top winemakers, have them each make wines from the same 5 vineyards, have a panel of tasters decide which ones are the best. And then you or I got to be one of the panel, so we could decide for ourselves who did better.

[Joseph_Grassa]

It’s basically impossible to separate the winemaker from the vineyard sources and wineries. Do DRC and Haut Brion have the best winemakers in the world? What if Joe Davis or Marcus Goodfellow became the winemakers at those estates? What if the DRC and Haut Brion winemakers (whoever they are) started wineries in Santa Barbara and Willamette Valley, how much better or worse would they do than others who are there already?

Having said that, we all know many excellent winemakers through our journey. I wouldn’t know where to begin listing names, and I’d certainly leave many off.

Maybe one way to think of it is this: what winemakers do I know of, where I’d be certain or almost certain to want to dive into a brand new project of theirs in a new (good quality) region? If Russell Bevan (again sort of randomly selecting the name of well-regarded winemakers on this board) moved to Puente Alto, Columbia River Valley or Margaret River and started over making cabernets from there, would you say “I’m totally in on that?” If Jean-Louis Chave packed up and moved to Paso Robles or Barossa Valley and started making syrah/shiraz, would you be first in line to buy it? Making reasonable assumptions about price and vineyard sites and all.

Don’t we have such examples of winemakers leaving or joining different or varied vineyards? At least enough to make our own subjective assumptions of their impact?

There are certainly some, but many more others who have not. And it’s the furthest thing from a level playing field, in terms of the wineries, price points, vineyard sources where different winemakers have gotten to run the show.

I guess you could have the equivalent of one of those stupid cooking reality TV contest shows, where you get 10 of the top winemakers, have them each make wines from the same 5 vineyards, have a panel of tasters decide which ones are the best. And then you or I got to be one of the panel, so we could decide for ourselves who did better.

I am definitely OK with being a taster on this show!

[M_Porter]

I think the late Gianfranco Soldera used to often claim the title. Who am I to argue?

[Nate_Simon]

Francois De Negoce.

[JohnP]

I’m definitely not qualified to judge who is the “best”, but I always thought it was cool when Jeff Owens scored a 100pt review from RP in his first vintage as winemaker at Odette.

[LasseK1]

Reynaud.

The DNA from Des Tours VDP to Rayas CdP… it is crazy and singular in the region.

[John_Morris]

For different reasons:

Marcel and Philippe Guigal: For producing both millions of bottles of an excellent Cotes du Rhone and very high end wines like the La-Las. Few can achieve such quality with both small and very-large scale production.

Rudolf and Sebastian Fürst of Rudolf Fürst in Franken: The array of wines, various whites and outstanding Spatburgunders, blew me away when I visited. Even some complex Fruhburgunder.

Fabio Alessandria at Burlotto: Not only the unique Monprivato Barolo, but also some of the best freisa and pelaverga, and two sauvignon blancs (one fermented and aged in acacia barrels). Fabio’s talent is displayed across the board.

The Vaira family at GD Vajra: Again, not only top-of-the-line Barolo, but also freisa that ages gracefully for decades and, yes, riesling. Just mind-blowing line-ups both times I’ve visited.

Steve Edmunds of Edmunds St. John: Steve has produced some of California’s most notable Rhone wines, and many that have aged gracefully. Plus fun, quaffable whites and roses. Always experimenting, but never following fashion, thank heavens. And the prices are … soooo reasonable.

[Jason_L]

Great choices by John. And my apologies to Joseph for starting out snarky.

I think each person probably has a different criteria for best winemaker: is it the one with the most sustained peak excellence, is it the one with the greatest experience and wisdom, is it the one with the greatest breadth of ability, like John suggests - or maybe the one who can make a good wine out of anything, like Casey posits?

My personal criteria might look something like this:

Can produce profound wine from profound sites and very good wine from lesser sites
Has the ability to produce great wine from both expected and unexpected varietals or blends
Produces wine in a way where its quality is improved and deepened with aging

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

. . .

Sometimes people ask questions because they don’t think they know the answer. I think that occasionally happens still even today!

. . .

What? You have been a member here for two years and you haven’t figured out yet that you are not supposed to ask a question if you do not already know the answer? You are lucky that you didn’t get a yellow card for having the audacity to ask a question with the honest desire to get an answer. And then a red card for admitting that you had done so.

Seriously though, it’s all about style and what you like. And then you have to define what you mean by “winemaker?” Does a consultant who swoops in, gives some advice, and leaves, constitute a winemaker? Oops, there he goes, asking a question that he does not know the answer to.

My thought goes to people who make wine from a variety of grapes and are consistently good. I like big wines, so that colors my thinking. That brings me to Thomas Rivers Brown, who some here consider to be the spawn of the devil, born immediately after the devil’s oldest son, Manfred Krankl. Why TRB? Because he makes excellent Chardonnay, Pinot and Cabernet at Rivers Marie. He makes outstanding Zinfandel, Cabernet and Cabernet Franc at Black Sears.

I would also put in a vote for Mike Officer. Not nearly as flashy and using grape sources not named Beckstoffer or To Kalon, he makes a wide variety of whites and reds from all sorts of different grapes. I have yet to have a bad one except for one corked bottle about 10 years ago. AND I have had hundreds of bottles of Carlisle.

Maybe my third choice is Justin Strider Smith. I would have left him off the list because he was making almost entirely red Rhone varietals and although I love his wines, he lacked variety. But I realized that he has a good chunk of Zin in the Paderewski and he has recently released some whites. I opened one and it is FANTASTIC. So he is my third nominee.

[Ron_Erickson]

When it comes down to putting together a final blend that he truly enjoys, it’s hard to compete with that Miles guy from Sideways.

[Jason_L]

. . .

Sometimes people ask questions because they don’t think they know the answer. I think that occasionally happens still even today!

. . .

What? You have been a member here for two years and you haven’t figured out yet that you are not supposed to ask a question if you do not already know the answer? You are lucky that you didn’t get a yellow card for having the audacity to ask a question with the honest desire to get an answer. And then a red card for admitting that you had done so.

Seriously though, it’s all about style and what you like. And then you have to define what you mean by “winemaker?” Does a consultant who swoops in, gives some advice, and leaves, constitute a winemaker? Oops, there he goes, asking a question that he does not know the answer to.

My thought goes to people who make wine from a variety of grapes and are consistently good. I like big wines, so that colors my thinking. That brings me to Thomas Rivers Brown, who some here consider to be the spawn of the devil, born immediately after the devil’s oldest son, Manfred Krankl. Why TRB? Because he makes excellent Chardonnay, Pinot and Cabernet at Rivers Marie. He makes outstanding Zinfandel, Cabernet and Cabernet Franc at Black Sears.

I would also put in a vote for Mike Officer. Not nearly as flashy and using grape sources not named Beckstoffer or To Kalon, he makes a wide variety of whites and reds from all sorts of different grapes. I have yet to have a bad one except for one corked bottle about 10 years ago. AND I have had hundreds of bottles of Carlisle.

Maybe my third choice is Justin Strider Smith. I would have left him off the list because he was making almost entirely red Rhone varietals and although I love his wines, he lacked variety. But I realized that he has a good chunk of Zin in the Paderewski and he has recently released some whites. I opened one and it is FANTASTIC. So he is my third nominee.

In the same vein, I would include Andy Smith of DuMOL/ex-Larkmead, who I believe has 100-pters with three different grape varieties now. I’d also include Paul Draper/Ridge Team, Fred Scherrer and Jeffrey Patterson as people who can’t help but make memorable wine with every grape they work with.

[Todd_Hamina]

Dead or alive?

[Joseph_Grassa]

. . .

Sometimes people ask questions because they don’t think they know the answer. I think that occasionally happens still even today!

. . .

What? You have been a member here for two years and you haven’t figured out yet that you are not supposed to ask a question if you do not already know the answer? You are lucky that you didn’t get a yellow card for having the audacity to ask a question with the honest desire to get an answer. And then a red card for admitting that you had done so.

Seriously though, it’s all about style and what you like. And then you have to define what you mean by “winemaker?” Does a consultant who swoops in, gives some advice, and leaves, constitute a winemaker? Oops, there he goes, asking a question that he does not know the answer to.

My thought goes to people who make wine from a variety of grapes and are consistently good. I like big wines, so that colors my thinking. That brings me to Thomas Rivers Brown, who some here consider to be the spawn of the devil, born immediately after the devil’s oldest son, Manfred Krankl. Why TRB? Because he makes excellent Chardonnay, Pinot and Cabernet at Rivers Marie. He makes outstanding Zinfandel, Cabernet and Cabernet Franc at Black Sears.

I would also put in a vote for Mike Officer. Not nearly as flashy and using grape sources not named Beckstoffer or To Kalon, he makes a wide variety of whites and reds from all sorts of different grapes. I have yet to have a bad one except for one corked bottle about 10 years ago. AND I have had hundreds of bottles of Carlisle.

Maybe my third choice is Justin Strider Smith. I would have left him off the list because he was making almost entirely red Rhone varietals and although I love his wines, he lacked variety. But I realized that he has a good chunk of Zin in the Paderewski and he has recently released some whites. I opened one and it is FANTASTIC. So he is my third nominee.

In the same vein, I would include Andy Smith of DuMOL/ex-Larkmead, who I believe has 100-pters with three different grape varieties now. I’d also include Paul Draper/Ridge Team, Fred Scherrer and Jeffrey Patterson as people who can’t help but make memorable wine with every grape they work with.

The winemaker who got me thinking about this was Attilio Pagli. I cam across him from this Argentinian Malbec that I rave about, but then I found out that he was also a winemaker for Valdicava where he got 100pt on the 2001 Brunello Madonna del Piano (sangiovese) & for San Giusto a Rentennano where Vinous gave the Ricolma 100pt in 2015 and 2016.

I imagine he is more a consultant though no?

[Joseph_Grassa]

Dead or alive?

either?

[TomC]

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

“Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

John 2:1-11
Side note - “the best” in “saved the best till now” is “To Kalon” in Greek.

[Casey_Hartlip]

Some winemakers are good at finding amazing vineyards… Ken Rosenblum comes to mind. Y’all keep leaving out the tractor drivers.