Bizarre Bizot

[m_ristev]

Screen Shot 2021-07-15 at 11.28.04 AM.png

just for the lolz. although i have been a great fan of these wines for their explosive aromatics, i have never found them to outclass their appellation. i can only imagine the disappointment the buyer is in for

Ya that’s insane, for the record it was listed for a fraction of that.

for sure, montreal has wonderful pricing on many of the speculative producers. however even so, you are probably better off with multiple bottles from his wife claire naudin vs a single bizot. they may not hit the same highs, but i find claire’s wines to be far more digestible as they never have the annoyingly drying wood tannin that is not uncommon with bizot.

[Fred_Bower]

My recent experience with Bizot is the Jachees, which I’ve enjoyed when I’ve had it a few times. I do agree that the oak is always prominent to my tastes.

Since we don’t hear about this sort of restaurant service very often here, I’ll pile on the bandwagon in support of the restaurant’s reaction to the situation. If you weren’t into any more wine at that point in the meal, I think an appropriate alternative action would have been to simply upgrade your tip as a token of gratitude and move on.

Cheers,
fred

[G_Greenbaum]

Agree you’re being a bit hard on yourself. It sounds like the restaurant took your return in stride. If you were served food that was inedible, presumably you would return it too. And agree the restaurant will make up the loss, either by margins or by credit from their broker. Young Burgundy, especially reds from certain producers, is just a waste of time, imho. FWIW, Before Bizot went into unicorn territory, I had 6 bottles of '98 Echezeaux. The first few bottles I opened were not so great and rather unremarkable. The last 3 bottles I opened, starting at 10 yrs of age, were fantastic. One bottle in particular was one of the best red Burgs I’ve ever experienced.

[Peter_Chiu]

I would look for it in the clove note that inflects the whole-cluster cinnamon, as well as a lovely orange rind/bergamot quality that the best François Frères can impart, plus some back-end vanillin; and then to the wine’s vibrant hues and an element of their textural sumptuousness. Note that this is in no way intended as a criticism!

It’s obviously very difficult to reverse engineer wines like this, especially when they’re so seamlessly put together and when the various components are synergistic. But I think the helpful heuristic is to try to imagine how wines made with the same vinification would taste in older barrels. Obviously working with very different base material, one can maybe get a sense of that in tasting Bizot-alumnus Mark Soyard’s reds, for example. And it’s helpful also to get away from the idea of new oak as something “added” to a wine: whether a wine is barreled down in new or older barrels isn’t an inflection point in the wine’s evolution, it’s a crossroads: the two paths diverge, but both take the wine to a new destination, modulating every aspect of it. This is why I try to avoid talking about “neutral barrels” these days: no container is neutral.

Totally agree with your last point, and find it funny that people use it, especially when referring to oak.

I also agree with your point about the seamless integration that I’ve always been accustomed to, which is why this really surprises me to hear. My original reference point for Bizot was 96s, and I bought a lot of them early on. They were so transparent and elegant. I probably didn’t appreciate them enough at the time! When the prices got much higher, I had fewer experiences with them, but loved some 2013s that I had within a year of their release, and they had that same beauty and elegance, but with that extra level that he has discovered since.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it all.

One of the reasons that I keep on posting that the more you learned about burgundy wines, the more I realize I know less but the more I prefer them. Red burgundy wine is like Carmen from Spain - unpredictable.

Most likely the restaurant owner is a friend of the same importer - of the wines by Bizot and Claire Nadine in Quebec.

[Peter_Chiu]

Thanks everyone for their input, sounds like I just got the wrong vintage, the pursuit continues! Since everyone seems to agree this only shows the restaurant in a positive light I’ll out them as Bouillon Bilk. The restaurant has a modest, unassuming appearance, but the tasting menu was creative, beautiful and most importantly delicious.

For the enjoyment of drinking a burgundy wine, beside, producer, producer and producer, the other key is : when to open the bottle.

[William_Kelley]

i have never found them to outclass their appellation.

This has definitely been happening in recent vintages. '17 Jachées I’d rather drink than plenty of Grands Crus Vosne from that vintage, and 15 Marsannay Clos du Roy was incredible. I only really drink them in restaurants in Burgundy, but I have a few bottles in the cellar, too. It will be interesting to see how they age compared to how the older vintages aged.

[M_Meer]

Agree you’re being a bit hard on yourself. It sounds like the restaurant took your return in stride. If you were served food that was inedible, presumably you would return it too. And agree the restaurant will make up the loss, either by margins or by credit from their broker. Young Burgundy, especially reds from certain producers, is just a waste of time, imho. FWIW, Before Bizot went into unicorn territory, I had 6 bottles of '98 Echezeaux. The first few bottles I opened were not so great and rather unremarkable. The last 3 bottles I opened, starting at 10 yrs of age, were fantastic. One bottle in particular was one of the best red Burgs I’ve ever experienced.

Hear! Hear! Everyone should Bizot lucky

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

Thanks everyone for their input, sounds like I just got the wrong vintage, the pursuit continues! Since everyone seems to agree this only shows the restaurant in a positive light I’ll out them as Bouillon Bilk. The restaurant has a modest, unassuming appearance, but the tasting menu was creative, beautiful and most importantly delicious.

+1 and for Bouillon Bilk. I highly recommend it since I’ve had very good food & wine experiences there.

[m_ristev]

i have never found them to outclass their appellation.

This has definitely been happening in recent vintages. '17 Jachées I’d rather drink than plenty of Grands Crus Vosne from that vintage, and 15 Marsannay Clos du Roy was incredible. I only really drink them in restaurants in Burgundy, but I have a few bottles in the cellar, too. It will be interesting to see how they age compared to how the older vintages aged.

i am definitely low on experience with the most current releases. the clos du roy has always been my favorite of the village wines in the lineup; the 12 has been phenomenal in recent time. however i am not sure i would consider it to be grand cru like tho, as one could with say the pataille l’ancestrale.
considering there were only 128 bottles made of the 12 i am very curious about the type of barrel he used. any idea?

[William_Kelley]

i have never found them to outclass their appellation.

This has definitely been happening in recent vintages. '17 Jachées I’d rather drink than plenty of Grands Crus Vosne from that vintage, and 15 Marsannay Clos du Roy was incredible. I only really drink them in restaurants in Burgundy, but I have a few bottles in the cellar, too. It will be interesting to see how they age compared to how the older vintages aged.

i am definitely low on experience with the most current releases. the clos du roy has always been my favorite of the village wines in the lineup; the 12 has been phenomenal in recent time. however i am not sure i would consider it to be grand cru like tho, as one could with say the pataille l’ancestrale.
considering there were only 128 bottles made of the 12 i am very curious about the type of barrel he used. any idea?

I guess it would be a feuillete!

[Neal.Mollen]

Just finished an amazing trip in Montreal, I may expand on meals and wines later if people are interested, but I had one sour note during my whole trip, mostly of my own doing. Been really wanting to try all these benchmark French wines I see spoke about here and due to my geographical location they’re either unavailable or I’d have to go through the expensive grey market. Montreal really was a great place to do it and everything blew me away, except this one wine. I ordered a 2014 Bizot “Le Chapitre” off a wine list trying to expand my burgundy horizons as my experience is very limited and I recognize the name as someone commanding crazy prices, much higher than on said list. Upon opening, all I can get is new oak and I figure ok we’ll just let it evolve in the glass. After 20 minutes it’s fairly unchanged but if I really try I can sense some terrific fruit trapped behind these oak bars. I swirl and try to like this wine for another 20 to 30 minutes, my girlfriend said I barely spoke a word We ate 3 courses I was hoping would pair with this wine, enjoyed every bite, but couldn’t for the life of me enjoy the wine. The restaurant was very busy and my server was swamped so I flagged down a woman who was cruising around overseeing everything who turned out to be the owner, to ask if she would taste it and educate me on what’s going on. She said the wine was sound and typical but if I didn’t like it she would gladly get me something else. I felt super awkward, and said it’s my fault if I don’t like the wine I just wanted to make sure this was a typical bottle, she told me she wanted me to drink something I like and politely but fairly briskly swept up the bottle and our half full glasses and took it away. Now we only have one dinner course left before dessert, so I’m not thinking we need a whole bottle so I order the nicest Burg they have by the glass 2017 Rateau something and compared to the Bizot it almost felt too fruity haha, but was fine. I felt so guilty for our server I did find a bottle to order and we enjoyed that while we delayed dessert. The restaurant was super professional and polite about it all, but I still felt like a real knob having a wine sent back, especially a sound one. Anyone want to cheer me up with a similar story or have experience with this bottle and can tell me what was going on? Or just set me straight on how I should behave next time, all criticism considered constructive. Cheers!

Glad you got lots of feedback from knowledgable burgheads, but I for one would love to hear more about your trip to Montreal. The travel forum is waiting for you (someplace I haven’t been since the pandemic started)

[T_Melloni]

Thanks everyone for their input, sounds like I just got the wrong vintage, the pursuit continues! Since everyone seems to agree this only shows the restaurant in a positive light I’ll out them as Bouillon Bilk. The restaurant has a modest, unassuming appearance, but the tasting menu was creative, beautiful and most importantly delicious.

Love Bouillon Bilk and have had terrific food and wine experiences there.
Might be one of the first places I go when the border opens back up.

Enjoy the insights on Burgundy and Bizot, as well.