Adam, serious question: why do you continue to try unknown Rieslings at all, when evidence suggests that you probably won’t enjoy them, regardless of what it says on the label? I understand that your rant is about what you feel is misleading labeling, but included in your stories are repeated instances of you trying new Rieslings and being upset by them. It seems very likely that you’ll be disappointed in pretty much everything you try, not because you’re being difficult, but because the wines you want are few and far between, if they exist at all, like Russell said. You’ve said there are some you do like - just drink those.
This community (me included) can’t help making suggestions. I’m not sure they are at all helpful in this situation, since it’s pretty clear your palate isn’t aligned to many of the responders here. Save yourself the frustration and stick to the examples you enjoy. I dislike most chinon. I gave up buying or tasting any but the one or two I do like years ago. What’s the point? I don’t need more one or two pleasurable examples. Get your variety elsewhere.
No, I don’t need it to be at 0. I know that’s almost impossible and prob not even desirable. Grosset Polish Hill felt truly dry for me and that was at 0.9 g/L. Paetra is around 1g/L and and felt the same way. Biggio Hamina’s as well. Empirically, I’d say up to 2g/L RS should be it’s own classification (bone-dry), and then the German 2-9g/L could be just like it is today.
A thoughtful and reasonable question. There’s a lot of knowledge here and I was hoping that the community would be available to guide me to those wines, in the absence of any other way of finding them. The world of Riesling is so vast, I went into my exploration thinking there’d be quite a lot of those wines that I just hadn’t discovered yet. Now I’m realizing they probably just don’t exist in any numbers, like Russel and many have suggested.
But it’s good advice, Sarah. I will conclude my search for now, concentrate on the ones I like and if anyone comes across a screechingly austere one, please let me know!
Over the years of pouring the field blend and Riesling from Whistling Ridge for visitors, it became apparent that while most people perceive “dry” based upon the balance of acids and sugar, a small set of tasters seem to perceive sugar independently. A wine with 5 grams rs but a pH of 3.0 will be perceived as dry by most tasters. But for some the presence of rs is still overwhelming. 5g/liter would be dry in Germany, and with a TA of 8.0g/liter this wine would be definitely dry by the IRF scale as well.
I think they are trying to point out perception (to most tasters), not actual residual sugar numbers. As others have said, perception of dryness also involves acid and probably extract and terroir, too. I’ve met and seen a number of wine geeks online over the years, and I’ve never known someone with this issue, so I’d take it less as if they are “stealing my money” as opposed to you perceiving even small amounts of RS as too sweet. Unless you think every Riesling producer is just out to get you .
This is a great thread. I understand the rant and frustration - it sucks to spend $20+ on something and be completely surprised and turned off by what’s inside. Especially if it’s labelled in a way to make you think it’s for “you” in what you look for.
I learned early on in my journey (the one class out of 10 in wine 101 that focused on Riesling) that it’s nearly impossible to tell completely what you’ll get from the label itself, you can at best get a rough “sense” for what you’ll get, and it seems that hasn’t changed, even with that sliding scale this producer (or importer) is using. You can see clues in ABV or other words, but it won’t ever be a guarantee. You’re trying to get a sense true to yourself from marketing tools used for thousands.
I think maybe the best solution is to aim for a producer/bottling that works for you and stick to it if you want predictability, but even this can change in a particular vintage or how the wine came out for them that particular year. And that you’re always taking a chance when you venture out into a new producer or new bottling. It’s all in the game.
I m with Adam. People are not saying the wine is dry, or dryish, but bone dry…steely dry…That implies no rs at the very least.
I’ve seen the same thing with other Alsatian wines. They say they are dry and they have at least 4 or 5 grams of rs. That’s well above the threshold of perception.
Ultimately the trend if Alsace is due to a couple of factors:
ZH wanna-be winemakers
Climate change
The bloom has long been off the ZH rose, but climate change is here to stay. Runaway ripeness and thereby runaway alcohol levels and the greater potential for notable residual sugar.
You make wine. Have you done a lab analysis? One’s perception of sweetness is dependent on the acid level, and vice versa. (I learned this at a components tasting at a lab in Napa a long time ago, where they took the same wine and manipulated sugar and acid to make the point.) Perhaps this is high pH/low acid and comes across as sweet.
That said, Alsatian “dry” rieslings shifted toward a lower acid/RS style a few decades ago. I’ve heard that the trend is back toward dry. I don’t know because I lost interest in the category in the 90s when many went all flabby and sweet.
I remember many hearing years ago that the original KJ Vintner’s Reserve had a a bit of RS from a stuck ferment, and that the bit of RS appealed to many people.
It’s my belief that there are plenty of modern red wines with higher Brix fruit and shorter ferments will be “dry” at 3-6 g/l.
Their other rieslings are delicious, but very fruit-flavored and intense. Thorny Vines vineyard, for instance, is TA 9.85 - RS 75.52 g/l.
But yeah, Adam should definitely give the Synchromesh Storm Haven black label riesling a try. Maybe skip the 2018 vintage because, again while very tasty, it is the least dry of that sku in the last few years.
Maybe also check out Scout and Little Farm rieslings as well (both from the Similkameen).
There’s RS in a lot of “dry” wine, whites and reds. It’s just often at imperceptible levels. I think this fetishization of 0.0 is interesting. It’s akin to the conversation about dosage in champagne. In my view, as I’m sure is the case with many others on this board, it’s all about balance. Within a certain range, the specific RS numbers are essentially meaningless. I agree that the fruit profile of Riesling must enhance the feeling of sweetness for you. All the classic dry Rieslings of the world with a modicum of typicity will have some RS. It’s the fringe experimental stuff that doesn’t. So… why not just drink something else.
I’ve had one 0.0 riesling. It was from Scribe. Not sure if they still make it. Absolutely ripping acid. Would be curious to age one.
I’m with you, Riesling is such a wonderfully exotic grape, and really needs to be in that 1% to 2% residual sugar to show all it’s colors in my opinion. I do appreciate Aussie Dry Rieslings and German Trocken Rieslings as well, just not near as much as the Kabinett or Feinherb style -
![[cry.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/853b6e76c6e8406be77a6727c2a27ad1672678b3.gif "cry"){kind=small}
.