As a point of reference to your Leoville Barton, the 2005 is drinking well now. I wouldn’t put such a hard line on the 15 year mark, as some will drink well a little earlier if they don’t shut down, but they are likely to be somewhat disjointed or out of balance. I’d put it more at 10 years for certain wines. Leoville Barton is one that seems consistently approachable at 10 years. Pretty much anything from the 90’s is drinking well with mature characteristics. 2000-2005 wines are opening up nicely with fresher younger characteristics. I’ve had some beautiful wines recently from the early 80’s, and the '89 & '90 vintages are still very good good. I also concurs with the statements about certain vintages. The 95 Cos is only now beginning to give joy. It was a hard tannic mess 5 years ago.
Backfill and enjoy!
Regarding the shutdown, much of it has to do with chemistry. Many of the phenolic compounds in wine, like tannins, can and do polymerize. They also bind with other aromatic compounds that effect taste and aroma. The polymerization process is the start of the shutdown. These polymer chains continue to grow and link, binding up much of the flavor of the wine. At some point, they become to long to remain in suspension and start falling out as sediment. They also become unstable and weak and start breaking apart, releasing the other compounds that have been bound up. When this occurs, the wine starts opening up. It seems to happen fairly rapidly at both ends.
After the wine reawakens, then it’s really a matter of continuing evolution of the aging process and all of the slow reduction reactions ongoing in the bottle. The first phase is prominent primary fruit, integrated tannins and the lovely earthy nose of Bordeaux. Beyond that is the shift to more of the interest tertiary flavors and the gradual fading of primary fruit. Of course, all this and the timeframe is dependent on the structure of the wine. For example, that 2005 Leoville Barton that is drinking so well now, doesn’t have what it takes to be the wine at 35 years old that the 1982 Montrose was I recently had was. But it’s a wonderful Bordeaux to drink now and for another 10 years.
I also had the Leo Barton 2005 recently and thought it was at a lovely place showing great tension between the fruit and emerging tertiary elements. That experience made me think about the comments of many Bordeaux experts regarding traditional wines from strong vintages not being ready before 20-30 years of age. But I’m glad to hear others are enjoying that wine already now.
Some 2009’s like Batailley, Gloria, Pedesclaux etc have already felt relatively relaxed for me and I haven’t felt the need to leave them in the cellar for another decade. I remember reading about a pro tasting of the 2009’s where many of the wines - especially right bank - were already showing signs of decline.
In the few cases where I had the opportunity to compare 2000 and 2005 like Duhart Milon or Lagrange, I have preferred the 2005s due to more freshness and energy that still coexist with the developed flavours.
I also get the impression that the drinking windows in the pro reviews rarely start from 15+ years from vintage, even for the more valuable wines. So maybe a big part of this is preference too.
I guess the only way to understand this phenomenon is to buy a bottle of Montrose and drink it way too young, but I just cannot bring myself to go through with that yet.
With the exception of John Gilman’s and maybe one or two other folks, drinking windows in the pro reviews are almost always bullshit. I think it started when they figured out their aging audience would promptly cancel their magazine subscriptions if all the notes effectively said, “Best after you’re dead.” Didn’t help matters when younger generations with our penchant for instant gratification came along. But they all know better and lie in the TNs anyway - on one page of the magazine you’ll see an article about a vertical tasting with a glorious 1961, then a couple pages later you’ll see a TN on the 2016 with a “Best after 2020” drinking window.
Oh I remember thinking the same thing. 10 years, that’s forever! Now, today, that’s way too early. I have been blessed to drink quite a few Bordeaux (with a good amount of Berserkers, too), that were near or over 100 years old, 104 being the oldest. So my short answer to the op is wait until they are at least 50 years old! But since that is nearly impossible, I would say at around 20, maybe, some of the aging traits start so shine through, maybe. Don’t get me wrong, I have drunk and enjoyed many younger Bordeaux, even recently, I just trying to address the heart of the op’s question. To me, vintages where you will get a great glimpse into aging capabilities of these wines are 1982, 1983, and 1985, and maybe 1989 and 1990, but the last two are pretty young in terms of this discussion.
If you like old world wines, a couple suggestions to fill in with nice drinking wines at a reasonable price:
Rioja. There are a wide variety of wonderful wines. Some drink great young, many are quite age worthy. Well-aged mature bottles can be bought for a fraction of the price of BDX wines. I’ve had some amazing old Rioja that has been modestly priced.
Burgundy. While we would all love to have a cellar full of mature DRC and La Tache, many mid-priced Burgundies give pleasure relatively early. They also benefit from decanting in their more awkward youth.
It came in and Stayed in.
Wine Spectator gave it a 91
Let me tell you…Very Elegant wine.
They finally got some 2015 in for the same price.
Wine Spec gave the 15 a 93
Fuller…more body
But…not as Elegant IMO.
Still very nice too.
Finally finished off the 2012…but not before I have a case and have probably drank that much since they go it.
Have a few 15’s but…I can get that.
So I would say this 2012 is peaking now.
I’ve had many and there was one that seemed off.
But the ones since are a joy.
13 bucks!
I reviewed on Vivino.
Another guy commented that Sooo much time in Oak as mandated for Riserva Ect makes them too Oaky.
But the Crianza was just right.
Sooooo, some of my wine friends (Not you Eric) think I have Way too much wine.
I don’t.
LOL
Not sure if that wine made it in to any of Your Costco’s but the 12 is a Gem.
Karl- do yourself a favor based on all that you posted- Taste a few 2015 St Emilions. They are out of the shutdown window and with a 3 hour decant should give you what you are looking for. The other regions tend to drink differently young and may be further from your Napa appreciation. Not sure how much you are willing to spend but between $60-$125 the world is your oyster so to speak.
Really great responses and very helpful.
I will look for some more right bank 15’s
You folks are the best!
A Book certainly comes far behind the real world experiences of folks who love fine wine.
Very helpful and I feel much more confident in the path I want to take going forward.
Already above 60 so, having my wine outlast Me…is not something I’m interested in.
I am healthy though.
You could probably check-in on the 2016 Leoville Barton right now, but I’m not sure there’s much of a point in doing so. Their reputation is solid, and you can safely bank on the wine ageing very well. If I were holding 6 bottles, I’d sock them all away for at least another 10 years, while keeping an eye on CT to see when it pulls out of its closed phase. Only reason to open one now would be to enjoy its youthfulness, a reason for which I am nearly never buying classed growths.
Very nice on that Caparzo! I had a '93 a couple years ago that I found quite enjoyable.
And wait to see what others say about the '16 Leoville right now. I just happen to buy Bdx. because I like aged Bdx.; others, and perhaps you, might have different goals/strategies that are just as valid as mine.
I never thanked you and many others for your detailed thoughts on Bordeaux.
The 4 to 15 years was Eye Opening!
The guys that teach our wine classes over the years at Total Wine said from 6 to 10 years.
I Know…I Know…they are there to sell wine.
But 4 to 15 seems more apropos to what little I have tasted and I haven’t tasted a lot of aged Bordeaux.
Did have that 2006 Haut Bages Liberal Pauillac last week.
But the knowledge imparted here is Outstanding and I would be remiss if I didn’t tell you how much I appreciated your sharing with me.
And Doug…Thank you for this.
Kinda what I was looking for. Some of the science of this as you said…
"Regarding the shutdown, much of it has to do with chemistry. Many of the phenolic compounds in wine, like tannins, can and do polymerize. They also bind with other aromatic compounds that effect taste and aroma. The polymerization process is the start of the shutdown. These polymer chains continue to grow and link, binding up much of the flavor of the wine. At some point, they become to long to remain in suspension and start falling out as sediment. They also become unstable and weak and start breaking apart, releasing the other compounds that have been bound up. When this occurs, the wine starts opening up. It seems to happen fairly rapidly at both ends.
After the wine reawakens, then it’s really a matter of continuing evolution of the aging process and all of the slow reduction reactions ongoing in the bottle. The first phase is prominent primary fruit, integrated tannins and the lovely earthy nose of Bordeaux. Beyond that is the shift to more of the interest tertiary flavors and the gradual fading of primary fruit. Of course, all this and the timeframe is dependent on the structure of the wine. For example, that 2005 Leoville Barton that is drinking so well now, doesn’t have what it takes to be the wine at 35 years old that the 1982 Montrose was I recently had was. But it’s a wonderful Bordeaux to drink now and for another 10 years."
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