Building new cellar -- how to store 375ml bottles?

[David_Glasser]

@Eric LeVine

@David Glasser

The only issue for younger guys is whether Eric has a succession plan in place, but I’m more comfortable with the stability of CT than any other Johnny-come-lately.

Hey, I’m only 45 and not planning on kicking or moving on. And unlike a few years ago, I now have a couple of fulltime employees including one who has the ability to manage pretty much any aspect of the technology.

That’s great news Eric. No disrespect or foreboding intended. I just thought that your well-connected jet-setting wife might coax you into an early retirement!

[alan_weinberg]

leave them in a case on their sides

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

If you are having it custom built, I highly recommend bin drawers. My cellar builder worked with me on the design, and then used it with other clients (like French Laundry).

They are drawers the size of plastic milk boxes (two), and drawers half that depth (4). The big ones hold magnums and champage. The small ones hold 375s and Alsatian wines (i.e. bottle a little too long for double depth). Work’s great.

[Larry_P]

I have two-deep racks and pair 375s with German or Alsatian bottles. I agree with others with not devoting a lot of space for 375s. Diamond racks are the approach is take if I had the space.

[Larry_P]

Oh, and CT is the way to go for cellar management

[Billy_Evans]

@David Glasser

I don’t have a lot of 375s, and most of them do fit into my racks without slipping through. There are a few really skinny bottles (Mr. Ks) that are too small to stay put, so I wrap them with paper towels to bulk them up. If I had a lot of them I would do what Tom Halverson has done. That’s the best idea for storing 375s that I’ve ever heard.

As to CellarTracker vs. anything else, CT is the bees knees. Hard to imagine anything else coming close. I suppose if you live long enough you might accumulate $4000 in annual contributions to Eric, but the QPR is just off-the-charts fantastic. The only issue for younger guys is whether Eric has a succession plan in place, but I’m more comfortable with the stability of CT than any other Johnny-come-lately.

Not just $4k. With eSommelier, you also pay $500 a year for support and access to the updated data. This does also cover hardware support (the tablet, scanner and printer). I’m not sure what the recommended CT contribution is for 1300 bottles or so, but I’m guessing it’s still well below just the annual cost on eSomm.

[Billy_Evans]

@T Halverson

In individual bottle or double deep racking I simply cut pieces of 1/4" plywood the width and length of the openings in the bins. They readily slide in and out, and serve to keep the 375s from dropping through the spaces intended for 750s. Generally, I’m able to get 3 splits into a double-deep bin, so you do pay about a 25% penalty in capacity…but loose 50% in single deep bins.

Tom Halverson

Ok, I like this idea a lot, or maybe a variation of it.

I actually have one, short angled wall of the cellar I wasn’t going to put racking on. It’s a short, angled wall to the left of where the door to the room is. I was thinking about installing a shelf to put a tablet/PC/printer/etc on, but thinking about that, it’s kind of a silly waste of space.

So, what I think I will do instead is either get an 8 row/column rack I saw at WRA that had a solid top and could serve as a table, or more likely if the wall is wide enough (I need to head down to the house tomorrow and measure) is another one of the 8’ tall tasting racks from WCI that would match the rest of my stuff. I think it will fit that wall about right, and still not interfere with the racks on the left wall. Then, I can use the tasting table to put the tablet, printer, scanner or whatever else I put in there. The bonus here is that if it will fit, the tasting center will give me another 180 bottles of capacity (bringing me to about 1550 capacity).

Here is the original architects drawing. There won’t be a table/chairs in there, and the curved wall, is now straight where the door is, and then angled back towards the left wall.

Oh, back to liking your idea. Rather than cutting 1/4" plywood to fit one at a time (still will probably have carpenters rip a good supply to fit single slots for future use), I might take the same concept and instead have them rip 45" long sections, that can slip into the rack from the side and provide a whole row (10 columns) with the solid base. In this way, I could dedicate four or five rows of this new section of racking to 375’s. I need to play around with it and see if it’s better to rip a bunch of little pieces and convert it bottle by bottle, or via the side row by row. Either way, the 1/4" idea is the best I’ve seen to date.

[Peter_Simpson]

If the back of the racks touch the walls of your cellar they will block air flow up and down the walls. Thus any heat entering the cellar thru the walls will have to pass horizontally thru the racks and bottles before it can escape into the air circulating in front of the racks.

Just something to think about.

[Billy_Evans]

I think WCI calls for the racks being 1.5" off the wall, so that’s what I’ve been planning for. Does that sound about right?

What’s on the drawing, with the cultured stone and all is something the architect put in there along with the table and chairs. I"m not doing that.

Also, I have 5.5-7" of closed cell foam in all walls, and in the floor and ceiling, I have 10" of closed cell foam. The basement around it will be conditioned as well.

Inside, greenboard sheetrock, which will be painted, and then will have WCI wooden racks.

[Peter_Simpson]

You need to think about the length of your bottles vs the depth of the racks, and how far you want the necks sticking out of the front of the racks. Obviously if you push your bottles in so far they touch the wall then they will conduct the heat in from the wall. I put my racks 3" off the wall and it seemed to work out OK.

I put the really long bottles in the bottom slots of the racks.

[Billy_Evans]

@Peter Simpson

You need to think about the length of your bottles vs the depth of the racks, and how far you want the necks sticking out of the front of the racks. Obviously if you push your bottles in so far they touch the wall then they will conduct the heat in from the wall. I put my racks 3" off the wall and it seemed to work out OK.

I bought a little three column section to let my wife and designer see the
redwood color to pick out paint color. I’ll use that to play around with bottles and see how to mount.

[Peter_Simpson]

Billy, your print doesn’t show a vapor barrier. The closed cell foam will act as a vapor barrier but you’ll need to tape the joints on the exterior side with a waterproof tape (metalized HVAC tape works well). Also if your walls have studs they could be a path for moisture and condensation.

[Billy_Evans]

@Peter Simpson

Billy, your print doesn’t show a vapor barrier. The closed cell foam will act as a vapor barrier but you’ll need to tape the joints on the exterior side with a waterproof tape (metalized HVAC tape works well). Also if your walls have studs they could be a path for moisture and condensation.

We taped the exterior/warm side stud/joints after the closed cell was spayed (put temp plastic and plywood in place to spray) and we installed a vapor barrier on the exterior.

Hopefully, we covered the bases properly. Most of what I read said closed cell alone was enough. We tried to go beyond that.