Buying Old Wine

This. That number really doesn’t make any sense.

I had to check out from CT how things are with wines I’ve tasted.

731 wines from 1989 or older.
98 wines marked as flawed (basically always corked or oxidized).
Rate of flawed bottles is ~13,4%

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Even 13.4% seems high to me but I do not know all of your sourcing. I wonder if my lower failure rate is mostly because my older wines tend to be Bordeaux, which overall is more sturdy than many wines. Or, I just have a clunky yak palate. Prolly that!

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I just had a 1986 Duckhorn Cabernet that was not drinkable.

The most recent note in CT wasn’t damning and it fit his price point. So…

11/2/2022 - VINNUT WROTE:88 Points

Ruby red in color with some bricking & clearing at the edges. Nose was initially of oxidative notes which blew off eventually and developed into a full & forward nose of ripe red fruit aromas of cherries & plums with overtones of earthy/dusty & rusty iron notes, some tobacco & cedar & leather. Medium-full bodied with a good concentration of balanced & smooth textured, ripe fruit flavors of cherries, berries & somewhat plummy, herbs & minerals. Lingering finish. Drinks well at present but at over 36 years of age it appears to be past its peak of development, so drink up! Although it could be attributable to bottle variation, this one did not appear to have held up to aging as other vintages. Fill was in lower neck; cork crumbled upon opening.

Except that they don’t always state it. I don’t know if it was my consignment manager not taking that extra step, but when I sent bottles to WB recently the description only stated that they were removed from a “professional wine storage facility.” So for all of the bottles of which I am the original owner, and even have receipts going back twenty+ years to prove it, there’s no mention.

That was the first time I had gone through WB, and if there is a next time, I will definitely have a much more detailed discussion with my consignment manager about the provenance &description that will be shown.

As one of, if not the, savviest collectors on this bored I’m surprised you believe this canard. We all know who we’re talking about here.

For the OP, my rules of thumb is that when buying older wine (at auction) I stick to commodity wines, like Bordeaux, and look for OWC. I will break this rule if there’s a particularly interesting mixed lot. I would only buy Burgundy in OCB and usually nothing with too much age (been burned too many times with bottles that appear perfectly sound, spinning capsules, etc. but when opened, wine halfway or more up the cork). I’ve been really successful with CA Cabernet back to the 1990s, but less so venturing into the 1980s and I’m not really sure why (maybe it’s just the producers I’ve bought).

This all could get better as time goes by because I think that, in general, people who buy and collect wine store it better than previous generations (aside from the odd Scottish castle cellar).

That’s not a great list of wines. Of those, I would only expect the Calon, Guigal, Dunn, and maybe the Silver Oak (crazy right? but the old wines can surprise you, especially Bonny’s if you like that sort of thing) to be good. By my count you got 3/5, not bad! The Silver Oak was corked, it happens, and Guigal from that era was not handled by the importer particularly well, among other things (good bottles of Guigal Côte-Rôtie from 1983 are superb).

Yep. I did not go into most of these with high expectations and one of the main lessons I learned was to try to pay a bit more to get better wines. More than anything else I was trying to taste older wines to get a feel for how they evolved and if I would like old wine. So far when I’ve had wines that are in good shape they’ve been fantastic, but outside of the Dunn I’ve yet to have one that I’d take over bottles with 10-15 years on them.

I had somewhat higher hopes for the 1982 Sociando-Mallet, '88 Mondavi Reserve, and the Riojas. Not that they’d be great wines but those four being flawed were painful. I was really hoping the '87 Ygay Gran Reserva would have held up because I’ve yet to have an older rioja (somehow they aren’t common in Alaska) that wasn’t flawed.

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What’s the difference between protruding and pushed?

Pushed in or pushed out.

Couldn’t excessive and freezing both result in the cork sticking out?

As well as heat damage. I’d avoid both pushed in, or out.

Who stores wine so it is frozen? I have bought some older wines from auction with the corks pushed in a bit. I did not assume it was frozen. Could that be the case?

if you’re shipping to Duluth in February . . .

I’ve been generally avoiding buying burgundy older than 1990 too also. I’ve bought some bottles with excellent provenance from the 70s (single owner, stored in refrigeration since purchase, 2 cm ullage, perfect label) that turned out to be only ok.

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Some producers also commonly push the cork in a little farther than others. Roumier for example - I’ve noticed on several bottles. Probably just their bottling machine.

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I’ve been seeing “Oxidized Capsule”. Is this something to stay away from or no big deal? I will definitely not buy anything with a protruding or pushed corks. What about seepage? It seems to me, if wine seeps out it would possibly be replaced with outside air unless its due to pressure which could be caused by excessive heat.

If it means rusted metal capsule, it might well be a positive sign of resting in a humid cellar. Or it’s suffered flood damage :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Seepage generally a big red flashing light, albeit there are occasions of bottles being overfilled at corking, so whilst it looks like seepage, that might not be the case. Little chance to know for sure, but level is a factor to consider alongside this e.g. a level in neck and with any residue looking old and dry, and I’d feel much more confident.

No one should be selling 1977 Bordeaux or Burgundy, or 1980 Bordeaux, or 1973 for anywhere near a “price”. Sauternes should not be black, and only “dark” after 60+ years of age, not 1992 or 2001 vintage wines. Bottles of red that you can see though as clear with an inch of sediment are clearly toast. Leakers with dark stained drips on their labels are for the bargain bin. I’m hesitant to purchase older wines not because I might open a crappy bottle, but for all the pain and time of having to return an obviously flawed product. But if I trust the seller it’s a lot easier.

Oh man, ive had good success with 1980 Bordeaux! Doesn’t hurt that it’s my birth-year…but plenty of wines have overperformed and i was able to score them at great prices :cheers:

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