Caymus cries foul

[T_Altmayer]

Between this and the Beckstoffer thread, I really dislike Caymus. Guess I never was their target audience

I feel so sorry for them. They must be really struggling right now. Maybe we should start buying their 2019s right now. And then pour them down the drain.

I’m no fan of Caymus or Wagner, but the question is one of fairness and logic. This affects far more than Caymus, but many, many wineries throughout California. The rules should be created to protect health,. Does it really make a difference whether one consumes food or not? I can’t see a reason for the distinction. You can create an environment that is not a “bar” for a wine tasting session.

And trust me, I have no political leanings supporting Wagner. But as a small business owner, I sympathize with having to follow rules and regulations that are inconsistent. I realize it is not easy – I work with Public Health departments across the State – but that doesn’t mean business owners should lie down and ignore illogical orders.

[Matt_Mauldin]

Can’t stand Caymus, but many wineries are adding food to their menu just so they can open and do tastings (just got an email from Melville to that effect). I kind of get his point. Either you are open and have safe distancing protocols or you are not. I’m not an expert on this issue, but what does serving food have to do with safe distancing?

In California, no one’s able to do tastings yet. If you serve food (either out of a self-contained kitchen or partnering with a caterer or food-truck) you can serve wine by the glass or bottle for on-premise consumption. Tasting flights are not allowed.

Again, the question is what is the difference? You have social distancing regulations and enforce them. Whether food is served or not is really not the issue.

I don’t disagree, was just clarifying that tasting rooms can’t actually do “tastings” in California at this time, only the wine service with food.

[Matt_Mauldin]

I don’t really envy lawmakers here. It’s kind of obvious what the intent is here unless you really need to paint some picture of your own biases. They are saying restaurants are cool but barhopping and roaming from place to place to drink are not.

It’s pretty obvious that tasting rooms have people going from here to there tourist fashion. Great way to spread viruses. Restaurants don’t work that way.

So of course that leaves a lot of businesses that are both or straddle lines in some way, in. And the ones left out cry foul.

I find it hard to sympathize with tasting rooms. I get people need revenue but viruses don’t disappear because people think they have been closed long enough. These types of places are kind of obvious to be among the last to reopen given the circumstances.

For Caymus he looks ridiculous here. Except for people are particular leanings who will probably go out of their way to support him now. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is his actual goal anyway.

Cris, those are all valid points and well taken. I’d just add that winery tasting rooms typically have plenty of outdoor space and would typically be easily adaptable to social distancing requirements.

[larry_schaffer]

Matt,

Tasting rooms are now allowed to offer tastings in SB County as of this afternoon. And SLO County has already been offering tastings as of last weekend - and this does not seem to jive with what the ABC has been saying, but so be it.

I have no problem with Catmus filing this, as this is an issue that the majority of regional wine associations are fighting as well.

I understand that they want social distancing and do not want ‘bar hopping’, but wineries are capable of doing that without forcing consumers to purchase ‘bonafide meals’ at each stop.

Could I offer food if i wanted to jump through the right hoops to ‘do it right’? Sure - but I am not a restaurant and really have no interest in doing so.

Cheers.

[Cris_Whetstone]

Yeah. Sure. Tasting rooms can do stuff. But they also do that stuff 2-4 weeks from now.

This pouting about food service getting in and them now sounds childish to me. It’s like some kid complaining their sibling got candy when they didn’t. Except we are talking about a pandemic which seems to get lost in the details…somehow.

[Gray_G]

Newsom is illogical

[Mattstolz]

The problem with this is not really whether or not the rule is fair. It’s that it makes him sound whiny. Literally everyone in the world is dealing with rules that may or may not always make sense, but it’s because no one making them is an expert and even the experts are all over the board. Caymus is not special compared to the thousands of other businesses around the country or millions around the world that are struggling to find the right way to open.

Our office stopped doing cataract surgery with the pandemic because it’s considered elective. But an office down the street that does injections for macular degeneration stayed open and continued just about as normal. They’re both eye procedures that overall present little life and death type of risk. But we didn’t sue the academy of ophthalmology for telling us that one is ok and not the other. There’s examples of it in just about every aspect of everyday life right now. It’s annoying to everyone else suffering for the greater good when one person decides that they’re the ones being treated unfairly.

[Ian_Dorin]

I’m surprised that no one has brought up the absurdity of this lawsuit and how Newsom is being negatively impacted by this too…???

https://www.plumpjack.com/team

For real?

[Nevin_Miller]

Caymus also has that pretty odious past with respect to their violations of Use Permits. In 2013 Caymus settled a lawsuit brought by the county of Napa alleging that they were producing more wine in Rutherford than their permitting allowed. They were caught bottling over 800,000 cases of wine - under a permit that allowed 42,000 cases. I have absolutely no sympathy for people that do not play buy the rules when everyone else does.

[Michael_S_Monie]

Anyone check on Plumpjack or Cade recently?

[Dennis_Borczon]

I’m surprised that no one has brought up the absurdity of this lawsuit and how Newsom is being negatively impacted by this too…???

Team — PlumpJack Group

For real?

Typical, virtue signaling. I do’t think people really get it yet. This virus in NOT going away, unless we get a really effective vaccine. All these public measures are just designed to slow it down. How many businesses do we kill vs how many people may get exposed? That is why this is never going to get resolved as a debate. we can stay indoors all we want and the virus will still be circulating…

[Mel_Knox]

Matt,
Before I got my cataract surgery I was a dangerous driver so I would not call cataract surgery electable.
Of course, I am still a dangerous driver but for different reasons.

[Scott_Brunson]

They underestimate me. I can be a quality drunkard with or without food.

If it’s worth doing…

[Gray_G]

Matt,
Before I got my cataract surgery I was a dangerous driver so I would not call cataract surgery electable.
Of course, I am still a dangerous driver but for different reasons.

+1

[John_Morris]

you have to be “conservative” to want your winery to open when you see other wineries opening and you can’t? Huh? what does that have to do with anything in this case?

It’s the way the argument is framed in the suit, as an egregious Constitutional violation.

[Mel_Knox]

IN SF doctors can begin receiving patients in their offices beginning June 15.

I just read an article about the Caymus case and see that the Napa Winery definition ordinance is in Chuck’s way, not just the state.

[larry_schaffer]

Also, it’s not just Caymus that thinks this makes no sense. From the SF Chronicle:

“Many wine industry leaders say no. On Tuesday, the heads of 31 California regional wine associations — groups like the Napa Valley Vintners, the Lodi Winegrape Commission and Monterey County Vintners — sent a letter to Gov. Gavin Newsom asking him to reconsider the food-service condition. “It strikes us as illogical that a winery must offer a ‘sit-down, dine-in meal’ as a condition to reopen,” the letter reads. “If a winery can safely reopen with food service, a winery can certainly reopen safely without food service.”

I wish folks would focus on this as well. Caymus can be seen as ‘taking the lead’ here - but there are lots of others pushing for the same thing.

And I don’t believe tasting rooms should be categorized as ‘bars’ but heck, perhaps I’m too close to the situation It is a ‘challenging’ situation and no one wants to see us move backwards as a region or country. Period. But I do believe that IF we are being allowed to reopen, it should not be with the requirement of food service. And if that means that tasting rooms and wineries are not allowed to open up until Stage 3, then so be it.

[Philip_G]

Also, it’s not just Caymus that thinks this makes no sense. From the SF Chronicle:

“Many wine industry leaders say no. On Tuesday, the heads of 31 California regional wine associations — groups like the Napa Valley Vintners, the Lodi Winegrape Commission and Monterey County Vintners — sent a letter to Gov. Gavin Newsom asking him to reconsider the food-service condition. “It strikes us as illogical that a winery must offer a ‘sit-down, dine-in meal’ as a condition to reopen,” the letter reads. “If a winery can safely reopen with food service, a winery can certainly reopen safely without food service.”

I wish folks would focus on this as well. Caymus can be seen as ‘taking the lead’ here - but there are lots of others pushing for the same thing.

And I don’t believe tasting rooms should be categorized as ‘bars’ but heck, perhaps I’m too close to the situation It is a ‘challenging’ situation and no one wants to see us move backwards as a region or country. Period. But I do believe that IF we are being allowed to reopen, it should not be with the requirement of food service. And if that means that tasting rooms and wineries are not allowed to open up until Stage 3, then so be it.

I don’t think Newsom is a tyrant, he’s trying to keep a very volatile situation under control. I think Wagner is doing exactly what he should be doing if he feels the restrictions aren’t fair. He’s exercising his citizens rights for rules that he thinks are unfair to his business. And while I don’t agree with the armed protesters at State Capitals, I think their actions are mostly to create division, they are also exercising their rights.

[Bob_Davis]

I don’t really envy lawmakers here. It’s kind of obvious what the intent is here unless you really need to paint some picture of your own biases. They are saying restaurants are cool but barhopping and roaming from place to place to drink are not.

It’s pretty obvious that tasting rooms have people going from here to there tourist fashion. Great way to spread viruses. Restaurants don’t work that way.

So of course that leaves a lot of businesses that are both or straddle lines in some way, in. And the ones left out cry foul.

I find it hard to sympathize with tasting rooms. I get people need revenue but viruses don’t disappear because people think they have been closed long enough. These types of places are kind of obvious to be among the last to reopen given the circumstances.

For Caymus he looks ridiculous here. Except for people are particular leanings who will probably go out of their way to support him now. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is his actual goal anyway.

Cris, those are all valid points and well taken. I’d just add that winery tasting rooms typically have plenty of outdoor space and would typically be easily adaptable to social distancing requirements.

The problem with outdoor tasting at Napa wineries is that the county requires a separate permit to taste outside. At least that’s what they told us at Heitz in 2018 after the sale. They were going to have to wait for several months to see if they original Heitz permit could convey to the new owners. Its insane.

[Philip_G]

I don’t really envy lawmakers here. It’s kind of obvious what the intent is here unless you really need to paint some picture of your own biases. They are saying restaurants are cool but barhopping and roaming from place to place to drink are not.

It’s pretty obvious that tasting rooms have people going from here to there tourist fashion. Great way to spread viruses. Restaurants don’t work that way.

So of course that leaves a lot of businesses that are both or straddle lines in some way, in. And the ones left out cry foul.

I find it hard to sympathize with tasting rooms. I get people need revenue but viruses don’t disappear because people think they have been closed long enough. These types of places are kind of obvious to be among the last to reopen given the circumstances.

For Caymus he looks ridiculous here. Except for people are particular leanings who will probably go out of their way to support him now. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is his actual goal anyway.

Cris, those are all valid points and well taken. I’d just add that winery tasting rooms typically have plenty of outdoor space and would typically be easily adaptable to social distancing requirements.

The problem with outdoor tasting at Napa wineries is that the county requires a separate permit to taste outside. At least that’s what they told us at Heitz in 2018 after the sale. They were going to have to wait for several months to see if they original Heitz permit could convey to the new owners. Its insane.

Caymus has outdoor tastings. What’s the difference between them bringing out a cheeseburger to the patio or glasses of wine?