Condrieu

[Al_Osterheld]

@Linda Baehr

@Al Osterheld

Morgan makes lovely viognier wines. Her Cold Heaven wines tend to be in the crisp, elegant style. The blend with Cuilleron, bottled under the Domaine de Deux Mondes label, is bigger, oilier, and sees some new oak (from the Cuilleron part).

-Al

I thought the French/Cali blend was the Deux C?

I think you’re right. Deux C is the blend, Dom de Deux Mondes Saints and Sinners is a collaborative effort from Sanford and Benedict fruit.

-Al

[Jeff_Tomas]

Linda:

Guigal poured both its regular Condrieu, which I agree was “thin” compared to the '05 along with the La Doriane, which I thought was heavy with oak… but it usually is early on. I find the oak in the La Doriane mellows out after a few years.

[markjahnke]

Domaine Yves Cuilleron Condrieu La Petite Cote Love this wine! -mJ

[Larry_Stein]

Robert Niero and Christophe Pichon. Both are difficult to find in the US so Wine-Searcher may be your friend here. I learned about these producers from the most Rhone-knowledgeable person I know (Dan Fredman knows who I’m talking about, initials are SY).

I’m of the opinion that using new oak on Condrieu (or Viognier, in general) is a crime against humanity. That variety is all about the delicate floral notes and new oak totally robs it of that charm. That’s what makes it unique.

IMHO, Guigal “La Doriane” is wretched stuff.

[dfredman]

Dang, I feel as if I’m present at my own memorial service or something.

SY has definitely forgot more about the Rhône than I’ll ever know, but he’s a lot older and wiser than I. Not much else to add to what’s been said above, but I’m pretty open minded when it comes to Condrieu styles - I’m just as willing to drink the more zaftig styles as I am the leaner, more elegant wines.

I agree with Larry that the fruit can potentially get lost when subjected to lots of new oak, but at some point, I think that the ripeness and the elevated alcohol levels are appropriately balanced by the presence of new barrels. La Doriane is probably the outer limit for me, but there’s more than a little bit of hedonistic pleasure to be gotten when it’s handled properly. Cuilleron and Villard push the envelope a bit as well, but they rarely step over the line. My preference is for the Vernay and Niero approach (“less is more, but it’s still plenty”) but basically, I just really like Condrieu.

I’m a little more ambivalent about varietal-bottled Viognier from over here. There are moments of greatness in the new world, but I don’t find the consistency here that I do when drinking Condrieu. I find that Marsanne and Roussanne are more workable here than Viognier; my CA benchmark Viogniers are from Calera and Cold Heaven. They’re at different ends of the style spectrum but I find both well worth their prices. The moment of truth arrives when I have to decide whether I want two bottles of Calera or one bottle of Vernay - tough call, but I usually opt for the “original” version. There’s just something about the heights that Viognier can hit in the particular range of terroir available in Condrieu that CA (or Chile, Australia, or Oregon) has yet to match with any consistency. I remain hopeful. Viognier in CA has progressed considerably since the days when your options were limited to Calera, Ritchie Creek, Bonny Doon, and La Jota.

DF

[Sarah_Warner]

@dfredman

Dang, I feel as if I’m present at my own memorial service or something.

SY has definitely forgot more about the Rhône than I’ll ever know, but he’s a lot older and wiser than I. Not much else to add to what’s been said above, but I’m pretty open minded when it comes to Condrieu styles - I’m just as willing to drink the more zaftig styles as I am the leaner, more elegant wines.

I agree with Larry that the fruit can potentially get lost when subjected to lots of new oak, but at some point, I think that the ripeness and the elevated alcohol levels are appropriately balanced by the presence of new barrels. La Doriane is probably the outer limit for me, but there’s more than a little bit of hedonistic pleasure to be gotten when it’s handled properly. Cuilleron and Villard push the envelope a bit as well, but they rarely step over the line. My preference is for the Vernay and Niero approach (“less is more, but it’s still plenty”) but basically, I just really like Condrieu.

I’m a little more ambivalent about varietal-bottled Viognier from over here. There are moments of greatness in the new world, but I don’t find the consistency here that I do when drinking Condrieu. I find that Marsanne and Roussanne are more workable here than Viognier; my CA benchmark Viogniers are from Calera and Cold Heaven. They’re at different ends of the style spectrum but I find both well worth their prices. The moment of truth arrives when I have to decide whether I want two bottles of Calera or one bottle of Vernay - tough call, but I usually opt for the “original” version. There’s just something about the heights that Viognier can hit in the particular range of terroir available in Condrieu that CA (or Chile, Australia, or Oregon) has yet to match with any consistency. I remain hopeful. Viognier in CA has progressed considerably since the days when your options were limited to Calera, Ritchie Creek, Bonny Doon, and La Jota.

DF

Hey Dan! Thank you all for your suggestions and help! I am so excited to check these out!

[John_Cabot]

@dfredman

Dang, I feel as if I’m present at my own memorial service or something.

SY has definitely forgot more about the Rhône than I’ll ever know, but he’s a lot older and wiser than I. Not much else to add to what’s been said above, but I’m pretty open minded when it comes to Condrieu styles - I’m just as willing to drink the more zaftig styles as I am the leaner, more elegant wines.

I agree with Larry that the fruit can potentially get lost when subjected to lots of new oak, but at some point, I think that the ripeness and the elevated alcohol levels are appropriately balanced by the presence of new barrels. La Doriane is probably the outer limit for me, but there’s more than a little bit of hedonistic pleasure to be gotten when it’s handled properly. Cuilleron and Villard push the envelope a bit as well, but they rarely step over the line. My preference is for the Vernay and Niero approach (“less is more, but it’s still plenty”) but basically, I just really like Condrieu.

I’m a little more ambivalent about varietal-bottled Viognier from over here. There are moments of greatness in the new world, but I don’t find the consistency here that I do when drinking Condrieu. I find that Marsanne and Roussanne are more workable here than Viognier; my CA benchmark Viogniers are from Calera and Cold Heaven. They’re at different ends of the style spectrum but I find both well worth their prices. The moment of truth arrives when I have to decide whether I want two bottles of Calera or one bottle of Vernay - tough call, but I usually opt for the “original” version. There’s just something about the heights that Viognier can hit in the particular range of terroir available in Condrieu that CA (or Chile, Australia, or Oregon) has yet to match with any consistency. I remain hopeful. Viognier in CA has progressed considerably since the days when your options were limited to Calera, Ritchie Creek, Bonny Doon, and La Jota.

DF

Welcome to the board Dan. Glad to see you over here.