HoosJustinG,
No problem. I have created the Academy for Ancient Wines and we make two meetings per year with a format of around 30 people sharing around 45 wines. We are split in three groups, so everyone can taste 15 old wines brought by the participants.
You can read the rules there :
It is in French but you will see how it works for participants who provide no wine.
Jayson,
Thank you for your message which goes in the same direction as mine.
I wanted to show that I have a certain experience of great years. i chose the general great years for Bordeaux. It would have been too complex to split the figures per region. It was just an indication.
I actually have a bottle of 1915 Bourdy.
How was it when you tried it?
Do you know when your next one is? I cannot make it, but a close friend, who has a cellar of older wines, and is frequently in Paris, would be interested.
François,
when it was a 1928 âBourgogneâ (I assume by a negociant) then that was several years before any AOC - so we will never know what was in that bottle. I doubt that it was a simple generic wine outside any Village-AC we know today. Most probably it was at least a Village wine, probably a blend from several Villages ⌠and quite possibly also from vineyards classified as 1er crus today. In those days the simples wines were rarely bottled at all, but sold and shipped in wood âŚ
But you are right insofar as also simple wines âmade in the old styleâ can age âŚ
Taking 1957 (my vintage) I had a bottle of Poujeaux (granted, outstanding fill) that was almost on par with Lafite ⌠âalmostâ because Poujeaux faded more quickly ⌠and Lafite (despite a less good fill) showed more complexity at the end.
Karl,
The 1915 Bourdy was excellent. I love this year.
Mark,
I do not know yet. It could be end of May. It will be put on my blog when know it.
Gerhard,
One day, there was a vertical tasting of Lynch Bages, with Something like 25 or 30 vintages. And there was a flight with the fifties. The experts in wine named 1959 and 1955 as the best but I interrupted them and said : for me the 1957 is the best. They looked at me as if I were a bas taster but they tasted again and came to the same conclusion. Often, experts want to find in the wines what they expect of their knowledge of climate conditions.
I have drunk 62 wines of 1957 including 9 of DRC among which a Jeroboam of La Tâche which was amazingly great.
François,
I´ve had not 62, but 25-30 different 1957s, and Lynch-Bages was indeed very good (but not great). It so much depends on the specific bottle and its condition.
Bernard Noblet opened a ´57 Echezeaux for us, I assume simply by accident - I don´t think he knew my vintage, but wasn´t it his, too? It was outstanding, but could have benefitted from more airing time.
I also had a ´57 RC (17 years ago, when it was slightly more affordable than today), but it wasn´t a really shattering experience, rather an excellent wine.
1957 is not a bad vintage, neither a great one, but there are some fine bottles âŚ
1957 Hermitage Sizeranne/Chapoutier isn´t bad either âŚ
A quick aside -
For those who are put off by Francoisâ use of the word âamateur,â think of it as lover, meaning one who is truly passionate about wine, in this context. It is it a level beyond mere appreciation, more akin to geekdom. The French do not mean this word in the pejorative way some English speakers do.
If you tell a French winemaker you are an amateur de vin, theyâll understand that you didnât just trundle up to their door because you were in the area and the tourist guides suggested a winery visit.
Not put off by that, only by Francois thinking that you can only start drinking wines at 50+ years of age. If I had that kind of thinking I never would have gotten into wine in the first place because I still couldnât drink wines purchased in the 1980âs.
I donât think heâs making that claim at all, rather heâs just debunking the whole maturity curve POV. Yes, heâs saying that for him 1961 will keep getting better, but thatâs different than saying you have to wait fifty years.
I donât collect first growths or DRC, so Iâm not sure how much Francoisâs results apply to me, but itâs an interesting perspective. I already raised my eyebrows when CT notes tell me to âdrink upâ my 2002 burgs, but now the brow-arch will be just a bit steeper.
Markus,
I made notes on what I have drunk since 2000. And knowing the year of consumption I calculate the age of the wine when I drank it.
I have drunk 3808 wines having 50 years or more, with an average age of 74,7 years
I have drunk 12365 wines having less than 50 years, with an average age of 17,2 years.
I drink three times more âYoungâ wines than old wines. If I suggest and encourage wine lovers (and not wine amateurs) to have interest in âoldâ wines, it is because it is a fascinating world. The world of wine is not black or white. It is a large world. And I want to fight against preconceived ideas saying that an old wine has less interest than a young wine.
I could have told you long ago that such a suggestion is total rubbish ⌠the best will outlive me ⌠![[oops.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/1/1f129ddad071ffe5db6c99817c3cab666035a70a.gif "oops"){kind=small}
Yes Gerhard, this will probably be the case. But is this true for every 2002 Burgundy? From Bourgogne over village wines to the Grands Crus? Is this true for both Cote de Beaune and Cote de Nuits? I do not think so. If you speak about the best Grands Crus and Premiers I am with you. But not if we talk about 2002 entirely. And another question is if the wines will be better in 20 years. This is an almost fruitless discussion because there is nor right or wrong when it comes to personal taste. But I am again with you that many wines are drunk too early. Especially the best from the best vintages.
I remember an interview I once read in a wine magazine with Bruno Giacosa what the right moment is to open a bottle of his riservas. His answer was: Some people wait until the tannin is barely existent. But I think a Barolo without tannins is no longer a Barolo. I know many people who adore very old Barolo. Who is right? Nobody entirely. Everybody can answer this question only for himself. I know winemakers who prefer classic wines more on the younger side also. And these guys are even not a small minority.
JĂźrgen,
I have attended in 2006 an extensive vertical tasting of the Barolo Conterno Montfortino prepared by the winemaker himself, Roberto Conterno. The oldest was1943. The youngest 1998 and 1997.
At the end I gave my personal ranking : 1987, 1990, 1955, 1978 and Roberto Conterno approved my choice.
This example shows that I have not an obsession to prefer the oldest, but it proved that older were appreciated, even by the winemaker.
You definitely dislike old wines, and it is your taste. Other wine lovers love old wines and I am happy that their number increases, as more and more testimonies are given on internet.
JĂźrgen, I think I was pretty clear: âThe best 2002 will outlive meâ ⌠the bad ones will not (hopefully) - with everything in between âŚ
Gerhard,
I mentioned it only because I see generalizations often. And as you may know â I agree with you most of the times.
Francois,
that´s not right â I do not dislike old wines in general. I had some fine ones. But the number is pretty small compared to the occasions when I thought that the wine in question has lost more than it gained with age. Not to speak about wines with more or less oxidation or really odd aroma and/or flavor. Maybe I should explain that I very seldom drink Grands Crus Bordeaux etc before the wines are 15 years old at least and the best Pauilliac i.e. not before they reached their 20th or 25th Birthday. Depending on the character of the vintage.
But I remember situations when people adored very old wines only because of their age. Some people get romantic then and loose their objectivity. At least was that my feeling. I do not talk about you because we never drank wine together. But I experienced those moments. This is one reason why I am often sceptic. But again â I do not doubt that some old wines can provide pleasure.
Wow!! Iâm feel intimidated. Iâm a newbie and just got into Chateau dâYquem because itâs my wifeâs favorite wine. We tried at 1969 Yquem in Paris at a wine bar and it was so complex. I have no idea how all those 1800 Sauternes would taste like. Hopefully some point down the line weâll be able to afford one and lucky enough to find one for sale.
I cannot match your breadth, but I have had two wines from vintages you mention and they were both transcendent. 1928 Margaux in 1969 and 1945 Port (I think Grahams but I may be wrong about that) in 1981. As I think about it now, however, I note that I have had 1963 and 1970 Port that was older when I drank it than the 1945 in 1981 and I have had many Bordeaux that were as old, or close to as old, as the 1928 in 1969, including a 1980 Clos LâEglise last summer at age 39 and a 1985 Haut Bages Liberal just last week. Since so many things produced in the world are better now than they were were 50 years ago, I wonder whether, for example, my 1994 Fonseca will outshine the 1945 if I can keep my hands off it and I am still able to appreciate it in 2030.