Supposedly, the aromatic difference between cooked lemon and fresh lemon is solely the volatile aromatic compounds having been cooked away. It’s certainly why you add aromatic hops for only the last minute (or dry hop) of the boil when brewing beer. It’s why while you may cook with basil, it’s a good idea to add some leaves after the pasta sauce (or whatever) is off the heat. Anyway, you can experiment to get an idea of the difference, the effect volatile aromatic compounds have on a wine. (And they aren’t always there to begin with, depending on the style and other factors.)
I’ve had this discussion with other wine reps and some of us have noticed Syrah can taste odd after being Coravin’d. Has anyone else experienced this?
I have a Coravin that just sits in a box because of what it does to the aromatics, same with Repour and all the other things like this I have tried over the years.
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I’ve had success with non muted flavors on bigger wines such as Cali cabs and syrah’s. I used the Coravin on a Terre Nere San Lorenzo recently and the initial glass out of Coravin was beautiful but when I revisited the wine after about 3 months whoa, not the same wine with half the enjoyment all the subtle’s were gone and was just a ton of acid.
Odd initially or odd after revisiting after some time? I am very happy with my Coravin results, although sometimes some wines will evolved gently in the bottle after being Coravined.
Anyone that tells you it doesn’t change the flavor or the wine can last forever either has a dull palette or is trying to sell you a Coravin (or maybe a wine bar that has had the same bottle sitting there for a year)
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We bought a Coravin to offer tastes of older bottles to visitors. But after doing a few side by side tests between using the Coravin and opening the bottle, the Coravin samples always seemed to be missing the precision and nuance of the opened bottles.
Using a gas to push the wine out of the bottle by pressure pushes some of the gas into the wine itself. That typically presents as having stripped the fruit, and is definitely more noticeable in lighter Pinot Noirs or white wines.
The same thing happens when racking barrels with gas pressure in the cellar, or rolling wine in tank with Nitrogen or Argon to homogenize the wine or circulate an addition. While it’s a gentle way to move the wine, the wine always feels a little stripped at first. After a week or two, it will return to it’s original state.
With the head space filled with Argon, you shouldn’t see oxidation. But as Wes mentioned volatiles will exit the wine. That’s also going to be enhanced as the wine expells some of the argon in suspension as head pressure diminishes(and with a hole in the cork it will diminish over time).
If it’s stood upright after Coravin, wouldn’t the argon continue to protect the wine as long as its not moved since its heavier than air?
Edit: to clarify, I don’t get how pressure has an effect when the argon should be settled on an unmoving bottle.
There is that cloudy whisp of white that comes out in the glass when you Coravin a bottle, so to your point, I think you can actually see the wine and gas interacting in the glass. I’ve brought that up in conversation and always get the shoulder shrug.
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The Argon doesn’t just settle on top of the wine. You’re using pressure to push the wine out.
If you just later Argon on a tank of wine, you’re not adding pressure. Howeverthe the Argon will still absorb into the wine after a week or two, so when protecting wine in tank storage you have to readd more Argon periodically.
When we push the wine out of a barrel with gas, it’s typically about 10-14 lbs of pressure to move the wine. So there is definitely some absorbtion of Nitrogen or Argon by the wine. Some Oregon producers used to rack regularly with CO2(cheaper than A2 and N2).
I don’t know what the lbs of pressure with a Coravin is, but you can only move the liquid with gravity or pressure.
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Yes, we saw the same.
I think what Max may be asking is: If the argon is heavier than air and sits on the surface of an upright bottle, which isn’t it fully protecting the wine?
That, of course, assumes that oxidation is the only thing at work here – the only thing to worry about. But, as you and Wes have pointed out, there’s also the issue of volatiles evaporating into the enlarged headspace of the bottle, which would result in reduced aromas. And the argon won’t protect against that.
Max - Forgive me if I’m misreading your question.
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John Morris clarified, got what I was asking - was referring to use on a single bottle
Dumb question. I thought argon was an inert gas and doesn’t react with anything. So how exactly is it interacting with the wine as stated above? The idea of aromatic compounds floating into the headspace makes a lot of sense and I might start using my coravin less because of it. But I don’t see how the argon itself could be doing any harm to the wine even if you can see it when pouring a previously coravined bottle.
Both it seems. Had a bottle of somewhat premium Australian Shiraz and it had an off flavor that wasn’t cork taint. I’ve also had wine reps use coravin and some French Syrah had an odd flavor they had been sample all week.