Current best value white Burgundies

[Josh_Grossman]

I don’t think there’s much value in white Burgundy anymore. I’ve probably drunk well over 2,000 bottles of the stuff, and while never a screaming deal, it was at least justifiable for the quality. Unfortunately the Premier and Grand Cru stuff I used to buy became Village, then the minor Villages, then the Cote Chalonnaise and Macon. Frankly, the affordable quality has diminished, while other places, notably Oregon, are making wines that are pretty much indistinguishable from the Burgundy at a fraction of the cost. I still buy white Burgundy when I see a bargain, but those opportunities are becoming so rare that I mostly rely on other regions to scratch my white Burgundy itch.

I’m in agreement and almost everything I’m picking up is in the Côte Chalonnaise and Mâconnais: A. et P. de Villaine Rullys, Les Héritiers du Comte Lafon, Olivier Merlin Pouilly-Fuissé, Domaine Saumaize-Michelin Pouilly-Fuissé. One that is still a good value in the Beaune is Domaine Florent Garaudet.

[Chris_Seiber]

It was darkly funny that we were all screaming about the premox specter over white burgundy, while at the same time demand and prices were soaring. “You have a huge problem!” “Do we really?”

[Chris_Seiber]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

[Yao_C]

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

It’s an interesting world when PYCM makes the Roulot lieux-dits and Boucheres look reasonable!

[Yao_C]

But back on topic, agreed with respect to Louis Michel & Fevre Chablis. Also surprised that Dancer’s Bourgogne Blanc gets no love - you can find the 2014 at Rare Wine Co for $35 (!) and it is delicious

[alan_weinberg]

there are some occasional opportunities to find PYCM at lesser prices, also Boillot. I paid 95 for 18 Moucheres. I paid 85 for 17 PYCM Ancegnieres. I think those are great values, wines playing above their appellation. I titled the thread best value, not cheapest.

Almost put some of the Moreau on the list.

I had Michel on there, Buzz.

[Josh_Grossman]

Recent thread for under $100 white Burgs:
https://wineimport.discoursehosting.net/t/best-sub-100-white-burg/160244/1

[ykwon]

I don’t think there’s much value in white Burgundy anymore. I’ve probably drunk well over 2,000 bottles of the stuff, and while never a screaming deal, it was at least justifiable for the quality. Unfortunately the Premier and Grand Cru stuff I used to buy became Village, then the minor Villages, then the Cote Chalonnaise and Macon. Frankly, the affordable quality has diminished, while other places, notably Oregon, are making wines that are pretty much indistinguishable from the Burgundy at a fraction of the cost. I still buy white Burgundy when I see a bargain, but those opportunities are becoming so rare that I mostly rely on other regions to scratch my white Burgundy itch.

Which OR producers are you drinking?

[MChang]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

Probably mostly tariffs.

[JLee]

It was darkly funny that we were all screaming about the premox specter over white burgundy, while at the same time demand and prices were soaring. “You have a huge problem!” “Do we really?”

White burgundy price increases have had a very strong correlation with low producer premox rates.

[jason_stein]

It was darkly funny that we were all screaming about the premox specter over white burgundy, while at the same time demand and prices were soaring. “You have a huge problem!” “Do we really?”

White burgundy price increases have had a very strong correlation with low producer premox rates.

do you have any data that supports that?

[Howard_Cooper]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

If a California producer did that, it would be because the producer raised prices, not because the President added a tariff.

[Howard_Cooper]

It was darkly funny that we were all screaming about the premox specter over white burgundy, while at the same time demand and prices were soaring. “You have a huge problem!” “Do we really?”

White burgundy price increases have had a very strong correlation with low producer premox rates.

Look at Leflaive prices.

[JLee]

It was darkly funny that we were all screaming about the premox specter over white burgundy, while at the same time demand and prices were soaring. “You have a huge problem!” “Do we really?”

White burgundy price increases have had a very strong correlation with low producer premox rates.

do you have any data that supports that?

Much like most observations about price increases by producer, it is based on observing the market long enough to be comfortable with that assertion. No data other than that.

[Chris_Seiber]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

If a California producer did that, it would be because the producer raised prices, not because the President added a tariff.

If that is all it is, then wouldn’t all other White Burgundies have an equivalent pricing spike from the 17 to 18 vintages? And if the tariffs go back down, PYCM pricing will return to a year or two ago?

Again, PYCM makes great wines, and additionally is very much in vogue with buyers, so I’m not surprised or upset that the prices are spiking up. Same way I feel when that happens with a new world wine. But every time a hot Burg or Northern Rhone or Piedmont producer has its price skyrocket, we all have to pretend that it’s only because of some shadowy middlemen, tariffs, grey market, or something else at play rather than regular supply and demand. When it’s a new world wine, then it’s all about greed, score whores, and so forth. It feels like it’s more about people confirming their biases about good guys and bad guys than it is an accurate statement about what is going on.

Maybe I’m wrong - I certainly have been before. Explain it to me and I’ll listen with an open mind.

[Craig_G]

My current best values are the Domaine Renaud Macons (Charnay and Solutré) from K&L. They’re unusually good for $20. There are a bunch of other white Burgs in that range but most of those I’ve tried have been disappointing.

The Bize BB Perrières is really good too. It’s more like $35 or $40.

[MChang]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

If a California producer did that, it would be because the producer raised prices, not because the President added a tariff.

If that is all it is, then wouldn’t all other White Burgundies have an equivalent pricing spike from the 17 to 18 vintages? And if the tariffs go back down, PYCM pricing will return to a year or two ago?

Again, PYCM makes great wines, and additionally is very much in vogue with buyers, so I’m not surprised or upset that the prices are spiking up. Same way I feel when that happens with a new world wine. But every time a hot Burg or Northern Rhone or Piedmont producer has its price skyrocket, we all have to pretend that it’s only because of some shadowy middlemen, tariffs, grey market, or something else at play rather than regular supply and demand. When it’s a new world wine, then it’s all about greed, score whores, and so forth. It feels like it’s more about people confirming their biases about good guys and bad guys than it is an accurate statement about what is going on.

Maybe I’m wrong - I certainly have been before. Explain it to me and I’ll listen with an open mind.

They have, look at the Ramonet prices; 249 for ruchottes

[Rick_Allen]

I don’t think there’s much value in white Burgundy anymore. I’ve probably drunk well over 2,000 bottles of the stuff, and while never a screaming deal, it was at least justifiable for the quality. Unfortunately the Premier and Grand Cru stuff I used to buy became Village, then the minor Villages, then the Cote Chalonnaise and Macon. Frankly, the affordable quality has diminished, while other places, notably Oregon, are making wines that are pretty much indistinguishable from the Burgundy at a fraction of the cost. I still buy white Burgundy when I see a bargain, but those opportunities are becoming so rare that I mostly rely on other regions to scratch my white Burgundy itch.

Which OR producers are you drinking?

The usual suspects. I drink a lot of Goodfellow, Walter Scott, Eyrie, and Cameron. Brick House, Martin Woods, Crowley, Vincent, and Brittan are in the mix too.

[Howard_Cooper]

PYCM prices seem to have gone up 20+% just from the 2017 to the 2018 vintages. Imagine what we’d all say if a California producer did that.

Oh well, I got to enjoy a few vintages of them before the prices went crazy. And I can’t blame the guy for charging what people will pay for them. They’re excellent wines.

I probably have 10 bottles or so, now I transition into the “reluctant to drink them because I can’t afford to replace them” mode.

If a California producer did that, it would be because the producer raised prices, not because the President added a tariff.

If that is all it is, then wouldn’t all other White Burgundies have an equivalent pricing spike from the 17 to 18 vintages? And if the tariffs go back down, PYCM pricing will return to a year or two ago?

Again, PYCM makes great wines, and additionally is very much in vogue with buyers, so I’m not surprised or upset that the prices are spiking up. Same way I feel when that happens with a new world wine. But every time a hot Burg or Northern Rhone or Piedmont producer has its price skyrocket, we all have to pretend that it’s only because of some shadowy middlemen, tariffs, grey market, or something else at play rather than regular supply and demand. When it’s a new world wine, then it’s all about greed, score whores, and so forth. It feels like it’s more about people confirming their biases about good guys and bad guys than it is an accurate statement about what is going on.

Maybe I’m wrong - I certainly have been before. Explain it to me and I’ll listen with an open mind.

Why do we need to explain anything to you? I am not in the trade. Buy what you want to buy. I don’t care. I would prefer that fewer people buy Burgundy. Please buy California and Oregon wines. Just please open your own thread to discuss and be polite enough not to pollute this one.

[Andrew_K]

The usual suspects. I drink a lot of Goodfellow, Walter Scott, Eyrie, and Cameron. Brick House, Martin Woods, Crowley, Vincent, and Brittan are in the mix too.

Odd names for Burgundy Domaines.